Dierdre Wolownick: Stewardship, Traveling and Listening to Yourself

“Just say no. I mean, if you want to be a climber and you’re a little girl, so what? Just do it. I’ve never understood why people acquiesce to that and accept the roles that are forced on them.”

— Dierdre Wolownick

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Dierdre Wolownick is an unstoppable force when it comes to an understanding of who she is and what she is capable of. 

Since 1971, she has taught five foreign languages on three continents and recently retired from the American river college near her home in Carmichael, California. And she's also done freelance writing and appeared in magazines worldwide. On top of already this list of accomplishments, she has been a musician all her life and founded the West Sacramento community orchestra. 

And the cherry on top of all of this is at the age, 55 She became a long-distance runner, and your career includes marathons and half marathons and other races. At age 58, she began rock climbing and at age 66. She became the oldest woman to climb Yosemite's El Capitan. 

And if this story wasn't already crazy enough, she is the mother of Alex Honnold. The world's most prolific rock climber. He is the star of the film Free Solo where he climbed El Capitan with no climbing equipment. It's incredible. This conversation shows why or how someone can be as incredible at what they do.

Dierdre is fascinating in what she provides to people, her outlook on the world. Being able to push back on norms of how people assume you should be. The power of writing because she believes that what you tell yourself informs what you're capable of doing. When you say, Oh, I'm supposed to be this or I should be that that's another person value. She says, write your own story. Please enjoy this conversation with Dierdre Wolownick.

Read Dierdre’s book the Sharp End of Life (Website Link)

Read Dierdre’s Blog

Learn more about Dierdre’s son Alex Honnold by watching the documentary Free Solo

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Show Notes:

[00:05:00] Who is Dierdre Wolownick?

[00:06:12] Thoughts on wide ranging interests

[00:07:26] New experiences and activities

“But I always loved trying stuff and like, that's, you know, that's the main part. I just love trying new stuff, learning new stuff, new places and, and, you know, when I went to college, I did a junior, my junior year in France, and kind of got a taste for seeing the world and experiencing different things.

A different area. I grew up experiencing different cultures in New York City. I grew up in New York. After world war II, New York was filled with people from all over the world escaping the war, you know. and it was, it was largely on, on, on our side of the continent. It was largely a European war. So, you know, I grew up using many different languages and, and eating, give them food.

You know, all different cultures. So, it was just sort of like you said, yeah, I guess progression is a good word for just getting bigger and bigger and more diverse. I hate that word. Diverse the way they use it nowadays, but, but yeah, it was, it was a gradual progression.” 

[00:09:24] Experiencing life post World War II

[00:10:56] What was the first thing that captured your interest?

“I become a teacher, you know, but not because of what they said, but because I loved teaching. You know, I just loved it. And, I was originally going to go into music cause I'm a performing musician. I always have been and I always love it. And but, but they always, they hammered away at this, this thing that, you know, every, every high school or whatever, wherever you're going to teach, every school has one music teacher.

But you know, four or five of everything else. I mean, your job possibilities are better somewhere, you know? So, I went into languages, which also fascinated me. And because I had been speaking and hearing many languages all my life. And so once I did that, once I became a language teacher, I started, started out teaching high school.

And every summer for my progress my professional betterment. I would go to Europe and practice all my languages. I taught French, Spanish, and Italian. And I was also, and I was also the musical director at the high schools. We put on musicals at the end of the year, and I would conduct the orchestra, you know?

So I really needed to go to Europe for my job and, you know, to make myself more. Better at what I did. So I would, and I met all kinds of people and I had all kinds of experiences that opened the world to me in so many ways. And it was so exciting. And, you know, I started to get glimpses of other things that I might like to do.

And it just, it was like you said, it was, it was a progression, very slow progression.”

[00:13:40] Elaborating on language and how to learn one

[00:16:26] How do you help people become a world citizen? 

[00:17:55] Recommendations to get people outside of their comfort zone

[00:22:24] Seeing the environmental impacts of human activity or lack of it

[00:23:24] Being drawn to nature

[00:24:49] Gifted or Influential books

Arthur Conan Doyle - Books

Albert Payson Terhune - Lad, A Dog

[00:29:26] The power of fiction

[00:30:59] Climbing El Capitan

[00:38:08] Make your own choices

“I never thought about that. Yeah. I never considered, I mean, age is just a number. It ages, whatever you. Tell yourself it is. And I, even when I was a kid, I never believed that I would, you know, follow the big boys, climbing up on the garage roofs and stuff. I would follow them up the trees.

And even though I was a little girl, you know, I wasn't supposed to be able to do all that stuff. So I never believed that. And, and it's really a shame that television and the internet, but mostly television really pounds that into us, that you're supposed to do this at this age. You're supposed to look like this.

You're supposed to dress like this. That's all nonsense. I don't know. I've never understood why people buy into that, why people believe it. I just never understood. I never believed it when I was a kid. I still don't believe it.”

[00:39:57] Who should you listen to?

[00:40:12] The Power of Journaling

[00:42:52] Understanding the stories you tell yourself

[00:44:34] Specializing doesn't mean crystallize 

[00:47:09] Sharing stories unfiltered

[00:47:56] Dealing with struggle

“That's a big question. Once you've read my book, you'll understand what I mean by how big a question. Yeah. a large part, a big key, if you will, in my own arsenal to fight too. Fighting against upheaval, you know, in life was the journal. Yeah. Really. I would've gone crazy without that.

I mean, I was in a nonmarriage for many years. My husband was probably autistic. I don't know what the problem was. He just ignored everybody and had nothing to do with anybody. And I was his wife. I thought I would say wife are supposed to talk to him and you know, but I wouldn't talk to you. It was a crazy time.

And at the same time, I was raising my two wonderful little kids, and I had just like a dichotomy going on, you know, trying to deal with him. That was crazy making. Then I'd turn around and I'd want to be mom, you know, a loving mom. And it was just, that was crazy times. And so I wrote out of desperation. I wrote in the journal all the time.”

[00:49:31] How have you grown in the first five?

[00:52:23] Directing your attention

[00:53:44] Writing process

[00:56:53] What is feeding curiosity to you?

Other blogs you might enjoy:

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Full Transcript - Dierdre Wolownick: Stewardship, Traveling and Listening to Yourself

[00:04:42] Erich Wenzel: Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Feeding Curiosity. And in today's episode, we are joined by Dierdre Wolownick I think I got at that time. Well, thank you for joining me on the podcast here, Dierdre To start, let's just go in and talk about you know who you are and what you do?

[00:05:00] Who is Dierdre Wolownick?

[00:05:00] Dierdre Wolownick: My name is Dierdre Wolownick. I am, all kinds of things. The most recent is an author of a book called the sharp end of life. it just came out this year. It's an exciting read and, it's an exciting weed because of the second thing I am, I am, Alex  mom. Alex Honnold is a name that a lot of people know nowadays because of the, the.

[00:05:23] Oscar winning movie, called free solo. if you watch that on the edge of your seat, you're not alone. So Alex's mom, poor mom, that's my, that's mostly what I'm known for these days. I'm also a language professor in many, many years. And, I've been writing freelance in my life and, artists and musicians, lots of things, lots of things.

[00:05:45] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, it's, it's honestly one of those things that when I hear people's bio is like that, where it's just wide ranging in many hats. I tend to scratch my head because we tend to pick a thing or society tells us to pick a thing and we focus on that one thing.

[00:06:02] And when you start straying out of that box. You know, people look at you and say, why are you not staying in your own lane? Which I don't like. and I wonder how you feel about that. 

[00:06:12] Thoughts on wide ranging interests

[00:06:12] Dierdre Wolownick: I've never liked that either. Even when I was a kid, I never thought that was a good idea. Yeah, life is, life is just too interesting.

[00:06:21] Erich Wenzel: Was it something that like your, maybe your parents had like guided you upon or was it just your own natural curiosity for the world to just explore it as you saw fit. 

[00:06:33] Dierdre Wolownick: Yeah, definitely not from my parents. I mean, my parents were old, old world, and you know, girls where girls grew up to become either secretary or a teacher or nurse.

[00:06:43] That was about it. And, and then you stopped doing that when you got married, you know? so I'm from the old school. Yeah. So, no, it was just, it was just me. I guess I just, life is just. Too. Interesting. I just want to do everything, you know? And I guess I got started early, been doing a lot of stuff on my life.

[00:07:03] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. It's interesting to hear the pushback, cause I forget, you know, with how much you've done that you're, you know, you are from a different time period, you know, before the internet. And before, you know, all this interconnectivity. And because I find myself attracted to the people that are exploring without boundaries, you know, even if you don't get there.

[00:07:26] New experiences and activities

[00:07:26] Would you say there was a progression for you to be okay with exploring beyond, especially given where you grew up, where you know, your parents said you will, could be only, you know, one of three things. Was it a slow progression or do you just immediately just like, Nope, I'm just not going to do that? 

[00:07:44]Dierdre Wolownick: I'm not sure what you mean by progression, but it was definitely slow to develop, but, you know, one step at a time.

[00:07:52] But I always loved trying stuff and like, that's, you know, that's the main part. I just love trying new stuff, learning new stuff, new places and, and, you know, when I went to college, I did a junior, my junior year in France, and kind of got a taste for seeing the world and experiencing different things.

[00:08:14] A different area. I grew up experiencing different cultures in New York city. I grew up in New York. After world war II, New York was filled with people from all over the world escaping the war, you know. and it was, it was largely on, on, on our side of the continent. It was largely a European war. So, you know, I grew up using many different languages and, and eating, give them food.

[00:08:36] You know, all different cultures. So, it was just sort of like you said, yeah, I guess progression is a good word for just getting bigger and bigger and more diverse. I hate that word. Diverse the way they use it nowadays, but, but yeah, it was, it was a gradual progression. 

[00:08:54] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, that's a, that's interesting because I, I forget the, the emotional mindset of what it would be like to live within the shadow of a world war like that where you're escaping from somewhere.

[00:09:09] Dierdre Wolownick: Everybody was just so happy. Everybody was just so happy then to have a job, but to have a home and all that stuff. You didn't dare, weren't more. 

[00:09:18] Erich Wenzel: Can you elaborate on what it was like for your parents to kind of, you know, escape that or just.

[00:09:24] Experiencing life post World War II

[00:09:24] Dierdre Wolownick: Well, my father was in world war II. He was stationed in North Africa, and by the time he got back and all the other friends who survived, got back and you know, family and all that, they didn't want any, anything else. They just wanted a stable, safe, secure home. You know? And that was the mindset really in that part of the world back then.

[00:09:44] They just, the, the goal, the entire goal of life was security, I'd say, lived through what, seven or eight years of world war. And so I think to them like the entire goal of life was security. That's what you went for. And. We didn't feel that way. You know, we, the kids are the next generation as well, that we didn't feel that way and they never understood that.

[00:10:08] I felt sorry in retrospect, I feel sorry for them, cause they never understood, you know, what we wanted because they didn't see that as necessary. So yeah. So I, yeah. Anyway, they had all these, they had all these, like you said, like you'd call them boxes, you know, we were supposed to do this, we're supposed to do that.

[00:10:27] And I never bought into any of that. But. And I had to, I had to stick around for many years because, you know, my mother was handicapped and, and I was the girl, so I was kind of her helper, you know, her, her hands and feet as it were. So I, you know, I had to do that. That was my job. And, so I did and, and I just kinda kind of buried everything else for many.

[00:10:45] Years and that changed little by little and I went out into the world and started doing some of the things I always wanted to do. Life became more interesting. 

[00:10:56] What was the first thing that captured your interest?

[00:10:56] Erich Wenzel: What was the first thing that really captured your interest where you decided that you were going to go set out on your own?

[00:11:02] Dierdre Wolownick: Well, it's not exactly like that.

[00:11:04] I mean. I did become a growth and become a teacher, you know, but not because of what they said, but because I loved teaching. You know, I just loved it. And, I was originally going to go into music cause I'm a performing musician. I always have been and I always love it. And but, but they always, they hammered away at this, this thing that, you know, every, every high school or whatever, wherever you're going to teach, every school has one music teacher.

[00:11:31] But you know, four or five of everything else. I mean, your job possibilities are better somewhere, you know? So, I went into languages, which also fascinated me. And because I had been speaking and hearing many languages all my life. And so once I did that, once I became a language teacher, I started, started out teaching high school.

[00:11:50] And, Every year, every summer for my progress my professional betterment. I would go to Europe and practice all my languages. I taught French, Spanish, and Italian. And I was also, and I was also the musical director at the high schools. We put on musicals at the end of the year, and I would conduct the orchestra, you know?

[00:12:11] So I really needed to go to Europe for my job and, you know, to make myself more. Better at what I did. So I would, and I met all kinds of people and I had all kinds of experiences that opened the world to me in so many ways. And it was so exciting. And, you know, I started to get glimpses of other things that I might like to do.

[00:12:32] And, and it just, it was like you said, it was, it was a progression, very slow progression. 

[00:12:36] Erich Wenzel: It sounds almost like a kaleidoscope. You know, you, you, you enter it in one thing, like you have a vehicle, being your vehicle sounded like music and language. That just kept opening more and more doors that were connected to those needs for me, 

[00:12:49] it's interesting because I was never super interested, interested in language, at least in high school for myself, but I've always, my mom is second generation Polish, so I've always, yeah. So I've always heard. Spoken Polish, growing up, but I don't know, it might 

[00:13:06] Dierdre Wolownick: have been able to say my name better.

[00:13:08] Erich Wenzel: I know I should have because I was recording it, so I was in my own head trying to make sure I said it right. Performance, anxiety. so I've always kind of had this thing about languages that it doesn't sound weird to me to hear other, like other foreign languages, which I never really registered. 

[00:13:24]Dierdre Wolownick: and it shouldn't.

[00:13:25] Erich Wenzel: And I've been using Duolingo to actually learn languages. I'm on like a 48 day streak. I'm going to try and do it for a whole year. just to try and continue to keep learning languages. Cause I think, you know, committing to the process, not the outcome is, is kind of my, one of my mantras that I'm using right now. 

[00:13:40] Elaborating on language and how to learn one

[00:13:40] And I would just love for you to elaborate on like how to get, you know, maybe someone who, who might see a language as a requirement, you know, for like high school or something. And how do you explain it to them in a different way that makes language something that's not just a requirement. 

[00:14:01] Dierdre Wolownick: Language is a requirement. When we're born, we start learning language and every and every human being is born with that internal decoder that allows them to figure out language that's all around them, and that's how we do it.

[00:14:18] We figure out language. Was it to the sounds all around us? So the best way to learn another language is to be surrounded by it. So if you can take a month, go to Spain or Mexico or whatever, or Hispanics, go to Italy, you know. Absolutely. The best way is to be surrounded by it and to be alone. Don't go with, with an English speaking friend.

[00:14:40] Just go there and have to function in Italian or Greek or whatever it is. You know? That's the absolute best way. 

[00:14:47] Erich Wenzel: So do you believe in immersion is the best way to learn anything? Just because that's what I'm really getting at. You can't just read it in a textbook or. 

[00:14:58] Dierdre Wolownick: No, no, no. You have to know languages, definitely in all languages.

[00:15:02] An organic thing that grows with you grows with your brain and no, you have to be surrounded by it. You have to, you have to use it. You know? If you don't have to, you won't. Your brain will get lazy. 

[00:15:15] Erich Wenzel: So love that. It sounds a lot like math, you know? And it's. 

[00:15:20] Dierdre Wolownick: As I, yeah, there's a lot of mathematics in language and awful lot.

[00:15:24] Erich Wenzel: It's really funny because like, as I've really immersed myself in the language, I'm actually reading German or learning German, for my own because my name is very German, even though I'm half Polish. yeah, I do, I've always just had this draw to learn the language. And as I've been exposed to different things, it's how you, what languages do you know or languages you use is like the lens at which you decode the world.

[00:15:48] Like you were saying. 

[00:15:50] Dierdre Wolownick: Absolutely. People who have no clue. You know, people who are monolingual have no clue what they're missing. You know? And that's so sad because it really limits your world and people don't, don't think about it that way. And they can say all English, I only need English. You know, when you go abroad, everybody speaks English.

[00:16:11] You don't need to, you know? So on a true, yeah. It so limits your world. 

[00:16:16] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. For me, it's I feel like it builds an empathy where if you're able to go and meet someone with their language, you immediately decide. Exactly. And they say, wait, you were 

[00:16:25] Dierdre Wolownick: exactly. 

[00:16:26] How do you help people become a world citizen? 

[00:16:26] Erich Wenzel: Exactly. You know, it's a source of respect. So I don't know where I'm actually headed with this, but how would you, Hmm. I'm not sure. Like it's, teaching is the right word, but just being able to, I guess, draw someone into, become more of a world citizen, I guess is the, is the idea. 

[00:16:46] Dierdre Wolownick: When I was in school, my like, you know, grammar school and high school, I always believed in, does it ever change that. Every student in this country at some level, probably junior high or high school, high school probably will be more beneficial, but every student in this country should have to spend a semester abroad in school, in another country that would do, that would accomplish what you're talking about.

[00:17:12] Erich Wenzel: I would agree. I mean, I, I've grown up in the Midwest my whole life. and the Midwest is, we're notorious for planting very deep roots. And we don't move. Like my parents kind of got here and then they travel. It's like car distance, you know, maybe one state in every direction. And that's about it.

[00:17:38] And so it had like, honestly, it took podcasts to kind of like break out of that Midwestern bubble and be like, Oh wow, look at the world is much, much bigger.

[00:17:46] Dierdre Wolownick: There's a fascinating world out there, there really is. Yeah. Americans are very, very insular, which is unfortunate. Yeah.

[00:17:55] Recommendations to get people outside of their comfort zone

[00:17:55] Erich Wenzel: Is there any recommendations just for people like Americans in general, like any cause of the majority of the people who listen to the podcast are American.

[00:18:03] Would you recommend taking the baby steps to become more comfortable with the uncomfortable, you know, maybe it is travel or maybe it isn't travel?

[00:18:17] Dierdre Wolownick: What language do you mean? 

[00:18:18] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. Either language or just traveling, you know, becoming more comfortable to get outside of your space.

[00:18:24] Dierdre Wolownick: Funny you should mention that because my next book that I'm working on right now, it talks about. It deals with how to raise children to become better stewards of our planet.

[00:18:38] And, and a good part of that is to take them to other places, take them on the road. I mean, children, especially if very small children, they don't have a normal. You know, children commit this world with no clue what to expect. They don't, they do not have a normal, so if you start them traveling when they're born, when they're little, I mean literally when they're born, but I mean, you know, a few months later, but if you start, I think traveling very, very young before they can walk it, they just take that in their Stripe, that's normal to them, and then the world is open to them.

[00:19:13] More so than it has been to their parents perhaps, you know? and then that becomes normal and it's nothing to fear. You know, most Americans are afraid to go to New York City because there's so much crime and they're afraid to go to parents very because of this and that. And it's just so ridiculous.

[00:19:29] People are the same everywhere. You know, people are people, anywhere you go, human beings are human beings. And. And you, they get set in, like you were talking about your brands. You get set in their ways and they figure, well, listen, this is the only way, you know, but, but there are a million different ways on this planet to do everything to eat.

[00:19:50] I mean, did Greek food, do you like it or not? Why? You know, there's a million different ways to dress, a million different ways to raise children. You know, there, there's like in, in Japan, the little kids who go to school, learn to, there are no school janitors in Japan. The children do it. And so if they grow up keeping the place clean for each other, then they're not gonna throw trash on the floor cause they know that they're going to have to clean up.

[00:20:23] Yeah. So there's a million different, yeah, exactly. Exactly. So there's a million different ways to do everything. And if you get kids traveling early, you know, very, very young, then that becomes the normal. And they see that. That that the world is fascinating and interesting and, and everybody's different.

[00:20:43] And yet everybody's the same. Everybody wants the same things. They want the little security, they want food, they want, you know, pursuit of happiness. Everybody everywhere. 

[00:20:54] Erich Wenzel: I find it really fascinating because you know, the. Like you were saying with little kids that they don't have a normal yet, so whatever environment that they're in or if it's that environment is constantly changing, or at least they're able to adapt more readily.

[00:21:09] Yeah. 

[00:21:09] Right. They grow up. Exactly. I grew up learning to adapt, and that's so important for the brain, and that's so important for learning language. Anyway, it's all related 

[00:21:22] and it's like thinking right now in real time because I find like parenting. As like a, like a in quotes job is one of the most important things that we don't spend a lot of time talking about.

[00:21:33] And I'm not saying like parenting advice. 

[00:21:35] Dierdre Wolownick: What do you mean? In quotes? Job. It's the most important job on the planet. 

[00:21:40] Erich Wenzel: Well, that's what I mean, but it makes it sound like a job makes it sound like it's like something you have like it's just work. You know, where a job is not, that makes it sound like a bunch of pressure.

[00:21:55] I think parenting should be one of the most fulfilling, you know, I don't have kids yet, but it's, I still think it's one of those jobs we should think about more often and like actually have meaningful, 

[00:22:04] Dierdre Wolownick: right. Absolutely.

[00:22:05] That's what my next book is about, you know, thinking. Yeah. How would you want to raise these new little people so that they love the planet and will take care of it.

[00:22:14] You know? 

[00:22:15] Erich Wenzel: So I don't want you to explain the book, but is there any like one topic that you would like to expand on?

[00:22:24] Seeing the environmental impacts of human activity or lack of it

[00:22:24] Dierdre Wolownick: Well, travel is one. a big one. You know, getting kids out into the world so that they can see where all this plastic goes. See how many birds are dying because they're eating trash.

[00:22:38] And how many, you know, you can't see that sitting home and then you won't. Yeah. if they're, if they've never walked under the Redwood trees, never smelled them and never heard them, the almost religious like silence under these trees, they're not going to get too upset when they read. You know, later on that some company's going to cut them down.

[00:22:59] But if they've been there, they will understand, you know, so travel feeds a lot of most of the book and child rape. 

[00:23:09] Erich Wenzel: It's like the, the idea that ignorance is bliss. If, if everything around you, if everything around you seems normal, then you're not going to go in and challenge if there is these, you know, the trash Island in the middle of the Pacific or, 

[00:23:22] Dierdre Wolownick: right, exactly.

[00:23:24] Being drawn to nature 

[00:23:24]Erich Wenzel: would you, have you always been drawn to nature or this idea of stewardship? 

[00:23:31]Dierdre Wolownick: yes, I have actually. I've always been, you know, the hiker and the family and, and my friends would follow new out into the woods because they knew how, that I knew how to get out there and how to get back. You know, I just, I read, read a lot about it.

[00:23:47] You know, reading is another key to. Raising thoughtful children to get them reading, to read to them when they're little, and then to get them reading. Reading opens the world in so many ways, and so yeah, I grew up reading, you know, Jack London and white Fang and silver sheen, King of sled dogs and all those things that opened the world of nature to me.

[00:24:12] I always loved it. 

[00:24:14] Erich Wenzel: That's really interesting because. You know, it obviously you had to have some sort of connection in nature or otherwise. I don't think your son would have gotten into rock climbing. but it's fascinating for me because as I've gotten older, I've been more and more drawn to nature myself.

[00:24:32] Even as an engineer, it's almost like an antidote to my hyper materialistic and you know, surrounded by machines and noise all the time. It's interesting to think about it in that way now. 

[00:24:43] Dierdre Wolownick: Yeah. Mother nature is an antidote to most of our ILS. Really. Yeah. 

[00:24:49] Gifted or Influential books

[00:24:49] Erich Wenzel: Would you care to maybe, you know, three to five books that have impacted you or like what'd you gifted the most possibly.

[00:24:59] For maybe someone who wants to explore, even doesn't have to be in specific for nature, but just general, 

[00:25:05] Dierdre Wolownick: well, I was looking at that question earlier. There's a lot of his books, I don't know, books that influenced me the most, the absolute most were way, way, way back when I was a kid. And I still read. Of course, I read, I write, but, but, When I was little, I would say grammar, school age, and we call it a grammar school back then because we used to learn grammar every year shows like the Sherlock Holmes books by Arthur Conan Doyle. that opened my world in so many ways. If you read those, you learn so much about the war. I mean, a lot of that, a lot of the nefarious characters, you know, the, the criminals in those books.

[00:25:43] Not just the criminals, but a lot of the characters were from other countries. Young Sherlock Holmes, of course it was England, but England back then was, you know, ruled the world and all that. So I learned about Asia. I learned about all kinds of parts of Europe. I don't know about Africa, things about culture, things about food and words.

[00:26:02] And the vocabulary in this book is amazing. I learned so much vocabulary from reading those books. That has stayed with me until now. And, and about backtracking to the theme of nature, reading like about Silverstein, the King of sled dogs or white Fang by Jack London. And, I grew up also reading.

[00:26:21] Have you ever heard of Albert Payson Terhune? Nobody's ever heard of Terhune but Terhune, I don't know much about him, the author, but I know the books by heart, but. He, I think, was a New Yorker. His books take place, I think, on Long Island out on the Island. so, I don't know, Long Island is major. I mean, it's, it's the woods and, you know, beaches and things.

[00:26:47] It's nature. And, the characters and all his books are dogs, lad, a dog. Have you ever heard of Lad, A Dog? And that's by him and you know, colleagues and anyway, but, but the dogs were people in these books. They were characters. And from all of those books I learned, cause I didn't have, as I started to say, I was kind of housebound with my mother.

[00:27:10] I mean, my main job was to be good, stay home. And when she hollered, I would hop to it, you know, and she needed something down the cellar. I ran down and got it. You know, that kind of thing. Yeah. so. So I didn't really have a whole bunch of friends. I'll do, I mean, we played outdoors of course, but, a lot of my life was reading, writing, piano, playing music. And, so from these dogs as characters, I've learned all about empathy and about what? Integrity of person, compassion, all that stuff. You know that, I guess normal people get from reading books about people. And, and then like through high school, I read, a lot of science fiction. But the good sites, the quality stuff, you know, there's a lot of trash out there like Asimov and Arthur C Clark and all the big names, the granddaddy's a size six.

[00:28:04] And they were already back then. And, you know, I read them all I devour doesn't, if you've ever read good science fiction, they're amazing. They, they, they explore. Philosophy and politics and, you know, emotional balance or how to, how to live a good life. You know, all the biggies, all the big themes in life are in, in good science fiction, you know, the good stuff.

[00:28:29] And so, yeah, I have a slew of books and it puts me in so many ways that way, but, And then little by little I graduated here reading about real people. 

[00:28:40] Erich Wenzel: It sounds really similar to my, my trajectory too, cause I didn't really read much nonfiction until I basically got into college, I was reading mostly science fiction and thriller novels for myself, and then it didn't really get into like heavy hitting or idea writing for a long time.

[00:28:58]Dierdre Wolownick: I mean, I, I still prefer fiction. I think I always will. Even now, I'm writing nonfiction mostly now. But, but I still prefer reading fiction and fiction takes you to, you know, boundless worlds and make the world whatever you want in fiction. But, I've changed to reading about people that live in dogs or horses, you know?

[00:29:23] Yeah. 

[00:29:26] The power of fiction

[00:29:26] Erich Wenzel: Would you say that like fiction books as a whole, and I was almost going to say that science fiction. Almost allow you to imagine a world that could be, or Oh, yeah. Positive or negative too. Right? So like it allows you take a thing and turn it up to like 11.

[00:29:43] Dierdre Wolownick: right. Oh yeah. Yeah. There's no limit to the imagination.

[00:29:48] If you've ever read Orson Scott Card, you know this book, 

[00:29:51] Erich Wenzel: I don't know that one. 

[00:29:52]Dierdre Wolownick: Ender's game. 

[00:29:53] Erich Wenzel: I know Ender's game. Yes, 

[00:29:55] Dierdre Wolownick: you do. Yeah. Well, he, he wrote a whole slew of books, either a whole, I don't know, hundreds, but wow. They're all, they're all like that. They all open the imagination to wonder, huh. I wonder if you could do that.

[00:30:07] I wonder what, if, you know, as a books like that, 

[00:30:10] Erich Wenzel: I think of a lot of books like that. You know, science fiction in the 70s. Or, or like around that area with the Isaac Asimov's and stuff like that. That kind of captured the attention of all those science guys that were building Silicon Valley. That you know, the world could be, and then now you look at it, you know, 40 years later and all of a sudden it looks like all the technologies kind of kind of come true.

[00:30:34] And it's like this was science fiction at one point,  

[00:30:38] Dierdre Wolownick: boggles the brain. 

[00:30:41] Erich Wenzel: That's one thing I find fascinating about doing this feeding curiosity thing. Like sometimes all it takes is planning a seed in some way. For people to say, maybe I could, that could be real.

[00:30:52] Right. Or asking yourself what if, and then it sets you down a path to make it actually something, 

[00:30:59] Climbing El Capitan

[00:30:59] Dierdre Wolownick: it's kind of like kind of like going up El Cap. 

[00:31:02] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. I was going to say, we definitely want to talk about climbing. 

[00:31:06] Dierdre Wolownick: Right? Right. One thing I did not mention when I said who I am at the beginning, I'm the oldest woman to ever climb El Capitan in yosemite. 

[00:31:13] Erich Wenzel: So what was the process like for that process? 

[00:31:18] Dierdre Wolownick: It was a long process. Absolutely. I've only been called me for rock climbing 10 years ish, more or less. And, I started because basically I wanted to understand my son's world. You know, I didn't say I had no clue what he was doing when he would go out on these expeditions.

[00:31:34] I didn't know what he was. Where he was, what he was doing, who he was doing it with, what, you know, it was a language I didn't speak yet. And I, I, I always like to know what's going on around me. And, you know, all these climbers would come through my house, you know, on the way to the airport or on the way to his friends, you know, and they'd hang out here and talk and talk, I had no clue what they were talking about.

[00:31:56] It was, so, I don't like that. I like to, you know, you know me a language person, so, so I decided to learn what's coming was about, and, I had him take me to the gym, the climbing gym here in Sacramento about 10 years ago, and just just to show me what things were called and what, you know, all the vocabulary was.

[00:32:16] I figured maybe I'd do a half a wall and find out what it was like to tie in. It said, put the harness on or all that stuff. Well as it turned out, I did like 12 walls that day. Disco discovery that I love it. And, and because I had loved climbing as a kid, you don't have to read. You have to read. They've got the sharp end of why, because it goes into all of these things.

[00:32:39]but I loved climbing when I was a little kid, but I was a little girl and I was supposed to behave myself and wear dresses and you know, all that stuff, which I hated. But, I loved it, but I tamped it down so I could stay at home with my mother and be a good little girl. But, but it was, it was, it was still there, latency, you know, and so it came back out.

[00:33:04] And so I began about 10 years, and about three years ago, every year for my birthday, Alex takes me out on a climb. That's, that's mind shattering for me. I mean, for him, it's babysitting, right? It's just babysitting. You know? He doesn't even put on his climbing shoes when you guys would me, but sometimes.

[00:33:22] But, for me it's always earth shattering, you know, literally, it just blows my mind and I come home a different person. And, so that's every September. My birthday's in September, and that's prime season in Yosemite, so I know he's always going to be there. So we do that. And so about three years ago, he took me up on this, do you know what a big wall is in climbing?  

[00:33:42] Yeah. So in cognac, basically for your listeners, a big wall is a rock wall that usually takes most climbers more than a day to go to the summit. And so you have to sleep on the wall and carry all your gear and stuff. So that's a big wall. So Alex and I did a big wall. Three years ago. And, but Alex as one people know now, he holds all the speed records on everything all over the world.

[00:34:07] You know, climbing rocks everywhere he goes as fast as anybody can imagine it faster than most people going imagine. So, when you go climbing without, you go really fast. And. So he made a rather small, big wall. But nonetheless, there is a big wall in Yosemite called the Royal arches. And we did it like in, okay, tell him we're coming down by supper time, you know?

[00:34:32] So it was, it was not easy for me, but I did it and I got to the top and we repelled down. You know, we were back for supper all the way back down. We're telling the back down. I'm thinking to myself, huh, I just did a big wall and it's not even genitalia, and maybe I could do that other big wall down the road, you know?

[00:34:57] So, he would, he wasn't living at home. By that time he was living at his own home. But, he would come through and pick up pickup stuff or restock or, Oh, go to the airport or whatever. So every time he comes to the house, I'd, you know, show him what I would, the climbs I had been looking at for that year as a, yeah, you think we could do this and think I could do this.

[00:35:18] And every year we did one of those. And then that year after Royal arches, he came through the house and I, I said, kind of. Kind of half jokingly, I didn't really think he would say yes, but I said, you think maybe someday you could leave me a bill cap? And he said, yeah, sure.

[00:35:40] Exactly, yeah, sure. But you have to learn how to judge. And I didn't know what that meant, but I didn't care. I had a yes, sure. And I was gonna. Hold him to it. So he left again. And then I found out what jugging was, and I've been, you know, using the ascenders to go up the rope instead of climbing on the rock, I didn't actually call the rock on El cap I climbed up the ropes. I jugged up the ropes. 

[00:36:02] I was on the rope. I climbed up the rope. I had to handheld. Gizmos. They're called jumar and they clip it onto the group and each one has teeth so it can push it up, but it can't come down and they attack. That attaches your harness on to your feet with long straps, and it's kind of like you make the rope into a ladder.

[00:36:24] Erich Wenzel: Okay. I'll, I'll make sure I look it up in the show notes and I'll have links for everybody so they can see. 

[00:36:29] Dierdre Wolownick: Yeah, yeah, that'd be a good idea. They're called jumar and climbers all called them jugs.  cool to go up to, to go up the rope like that. It's called jugging. So, you know, that's how I got the idea.

[00:36:41] And I proposed the idea kind of thinking, Oh, he would never agree to that. Cause I mean, I was 66 years old at that point and, and I was in good shape and I had been running marathons and I've been climbing for eight years by then. But still, I mean, I was old enough to be a grandmother. Do grandmothers go up El cap?

[00:37:03] Apparently they don't because I'm the oldest one, but they were doing it. I mean, it's, 

[00:37:07] Erich Wenzel: it's just crazy to think, right. Like the fact that he won just was like, sure, you can do it.

[00:37:11] Dierdre Wolownick: Yeah. over the years, over the years I learned what is, yeah, sure. Meant. It's not, it's not crazy. Cause I, you know, I would show him all these climbs that I researched and say, you think I could do math is grass.

[00:37:24] Do you think I could do Thai? And he'd say, yes, sure. And. Little by little, I began to realize what he means. By that, you know, it's, it's, yeah, sure. If you want to take the time to learn what you need to know and to build up the physical skills to do it and this and then, yeah, sure, 

[00:37:43] Erich Wenzel: yeah, sure. But there's a lot embedded into it that 

[00:37:45] Dierdre Wolownick: you have to do the work.

[00:37:48] Erich Wenzel: Yes, exactly. Okay. That's it. 

[00:37:50] Dierdre Wolownick: Yeah. He knew that. I knew that and I knew that. He knew that, and so we started working on it. 

[00:37:56] Erich Wenzel: You have your own language with him. It's, it's fascinating that you can get yourself to attempt these things, like you said, right? Like, do people do grandma's climb up El cap or just climb in general?

[00:38:07] Right. 

[00:38:08] Make your own choices

[00:38:08]Dierdre Wolownick: I never thought about that. Yeah. I never considered, I mean, age is just a number. It ages, whatever you. Tell yourself it is. And I, even when I was a kid, I never believed that I would, you know, follow the big boys, climbing up on the garage roofs and stuff. I would follow them up the trees.

[00:38:24] And even though I was a little girl, you know, I wasn't supposed to be able to do all that stuff. So I never believed that. And, and it's really a shame that television and internet, but mostly television really pounds that into us, that you're supposed to do this at this age. You're supposed to look like this.

[00:38:40] You're supposed to dress like this. That's all nonsense. I don't know. I've never understood why people buy into that, why people believe it. I just never understood. I never believed it when I was a kid. I still don't believe it. 

[00:38:53] Erich Wenzel: I feel like it's subliminal messaging you know, you just get bombarded by it so much. 

[00:38:58] Dierdre Wolownick: Well, I was too.

[00:38:59] Oh, so what? Say no? Just say no. I mean, you know, if you want to be a climber and you're a little girl, so what? Just do it. I've never understood why people acquiesce to that and accept, accept the roles that are forced on them. 

[00:39:17] Erich Wenzel: I feel like for you, you have this sense of self, or at least rebellious to say, Hmm, maybe.

[00:39:24] Maybe this is what. You know, I should do it in quotes, but I'm going to go figure it out first and then I'll make the decision whether or not I should do that. Be it my choice.

[00:39:35] Dierdre Wolownick: Exactly. 

[00:39:35] But everybody can do that. He could do that. If they would just turn off the stupid television, everybody could do that. You know?

[00:39:42] It's just, it's so sad because these kinds of choices are open to everybody. But most people buy into the limits that are placed on them and to the odor boxes that they're forced to live in. I've just never understood that. 

[00:39:57] Who should you listen to?

[00:39:57] Erich Wenzel: So would you say that someone, you know everything that you want to be, the only person you should listen to is who?

[00:40:05] Dierdre Wolownick: Yourself 

[00:40:07] Erich Wenzel: and I led you on that one because I knew your answer. 

[00:40:12] The Power of Journaling

[00:40:12] Dierdre Wolownick: Yeah, I was, you had sent me some questions. So think about it. And that was one of them. yeah. For, for kids in school, especially high school, college kids, there's only one real tool that you need to succeed in life. Are you ready for this? Your journal.

[00:40:31] No. If you have a journal, if you write in a journal every day or every two days or whatever, you can match. If you write, sit down and block everything out for half an hour or whatever tennis. Every day and write in your journal and just really honestly think about yourself, about your life, and you know what's going on.

[00:40:54] You don't need, you don't need a shrink. You don't need a guidance counselor. You don't need advice from people you don't need, cause it's, it's all in there, it's all in you and you just need to get it straightened out and figured out. And that's what a journal can do for you. 

[00:41:10] Erich Wenzel: Would you have any prompts for someone who says like, I don't know what to write about, right?

[00:41:13] Or. Things like that? Or would you just say, just sit there uncomfortable silence and then it'll start coming.

[00:41:21] Dierdre Wolownick: Well, I don't know how uncomfortable. Yeah. no, I mean, th yeah, writer's block is another thing. I don't understand that. The world is so interesting. And there are so many things happening in your life at any given moment.

[00:41:36] How could you not have a million things to write about? You know, what did your aunt Clara just say to you on the phone? How did you feel about that? Is it going to affect your life? Is it gonna change again? You know, is it going to give you college tuition? Is it gonna make you miserable? Why? I mean, it's a silly, silly example, but anything happening in your life.

[00:42:00] Who did you see in the supermarket this morning? Did you know, did they have one leg? you know, where they did have one leg and they wanted to clean your windshields for you, or you came out. You know, what'd you think about that? How would you, what would you do if you had one? Like, I mean, you know, it all relates to your interrelates and, and there's a journal is an amazingly effective tool to figure out your life.

[00:42:28] Erich Wenzel: You know, really, it's, it's, it's really interesting that I never thought about journaling in this way, but what it, this is the first time I've ever thought about this, but in this way, is that it makes you an active observer of your own life. 

[00:42:40] Dierdre Wolownick: Yes. Yes. 

[00:42:43] Erich Wenzel: That's what leads. The way you're explaining it to me is, is that it actually does.

[00:42:45] It says, how do I tell the story of my life, no matter how mundane or boring I think it is. 

[00:42:52] Understanding the stories you tell yourself

[00:42:52] Dierdre Wolownick: And when you're telling it to yourself, you have to be totally honest. You can't say it to yourself. You know you can fit in with other people, but you can't. And that's what, that's what it may be even in like therapy or whatever, or a counselor, you can tell them whenever you want, but in your own head, you can't teach yourself, you know?

[00:43:17] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. I mean, for me, the thing I grew up with, you know, it's the stories we tell ourselves, right? The things you tell yourself you can't do or you shouldn't do. Right. Those boxes you put yourself in . I was notorious for saying I'm not an ‘X’ when I was younger. Yeah. I would look around and see people and say, Nope, I'm not like them.

[00:43:36] I'm not that. 

[00:43:37] And by doing that, it like shut and locks the door before I even knew I could 

[00:43:43] Dierdre Wolownick: do. Right, right, right. And then our society is rife with that. You are not fit enough to do, give me enough to do this. You are not smart enough to do this. Why do people believe those things? That's what I don't get.

[00:43:58] Why did, why did they allow themselves to be convinced like that a journal can help you work your way 

[00:44:05] Erich Wenzel: through that? Yeah. It reminds me of the language you use to describe yourself. You know, like I am like when you say I am something, it's like I, the way I look at it now is like, who you are is not what you do.

[00:44:19] You know you can, you can do a whole bunch of things, but that's just the limited representation of who you are because we can never fit the dynamic and complexities of an entire individual in just one category. 

[00:44:33] Dierdre Wolownick: Right, exactly. 

[00:44:34] Specializing doesn't mean crystalize 

[00:44:34] Erich Wenzel: And when you do fit that itself, you become like an ideolog or a or a zealot in some way.

[00:44:39] If you buy into just one category. So often. I just find it dangerous for someone where if you buy into just one aspect of, of your personality too much, then you, you know, you become. Controlled by that to some degree.

[00:44:54] Dierdre Wolownick:  Right. Exactly. I mean, even my son is a good example of that.

[00:44:59] I mean, the quintessential climber, I mean he's done things. He's done things that no other climbers could even think of doing, but that's not all he is. And he also has his foundation where he's making, you know. People's lives better all over the world. And he's, you know, helping people in so many ways, in so many venues.

[00:45:20] And so, yeah, even somebody that focused, you know. Yeah. There's no, no reason on earth, like you say, to limit your, your self description. Right?  

[00:45:31] Erich Wenzel: I think honestly, what, what, what it comes down to for me is like, to some degree we do specialize, but what at one point that specialization allows you to open doors easier than if you're just a beginner.

[00:45:43] You know, you're able to jump ahead from the starting line, you know, a few, a few notches to allow yourself to have access to things, to make a bigger impact than you would otherwise. 

[00:45:54] Dierdre Wolownick: I think about my book. I mean, I've always been a writer. I've always said, well, I'm a freelance writer.

[00:46:03] I'm just a freelance writer, but I don't. I started doing books and just yesterday I got a message from some, a woman in Ecuador. I got a message. What do you call it on Instagram? A comment on Instagram. Yeah. Well, in Ecuador, who she writes to, she said she's in chapter eight of my book, and she, it's so inspiring.

[00:46:28] She got it. She got it from Spain. it was just published in. Spain and it's coming out to France and Italy as well. And Spain, you know, ships to all Spanish speaking countries. So she, the book, you know, there's a book that came from. Writing about raising Alex and writing about climbing. Who was the thunk?

[00:46:48] You know, now it's gone around the world. I'm getting mail from foreign countries for people. I don't know about how inspiring this story is. So yeah, you never know. 

[00:46:58] Erich Wenzel: Your words are getting translated into them, you know, all these different languages now. Right. 

[00:47:03] To bring it back full circle with, you know, traveling the world and sharing experiences.

[00:47:08] Dierdre Wolownick: exactly. 

[00:47:09] Sharing stories unfiltered

[00:47:09] Erich Wenzel: It is, it is one of those things that I find. Fascinating. being able to share stories unfiltered, you know, providing, providing information for people to say, this is my life and this is how it happened to work out for me. And not to say this is how you should live your life, but to let others make a distinction and say, here's what I took away from life.

[00:47:31] And here's like nuggets that you may wrap into how you do it for yourself. 

[00:47:36] Dierdre Wolownick: Yeah, absolutely. 

[00:47:39] Erich Wenzel: And this brings me to struggles. you know, dealing with either inner turmoil or just things that life throws at you that you don't obviously plan for. how do you, how did you deal with struggle if there's a specific event or just broad brush for it?

[00:47:56] Dealing with struggle

[00:47:56] Dierdre Wolownick: Hmm. That's a big question. That's a big question. Once you've read my book, you'll understand what I mean by how big a question. Yeah. a large part, a big key, if you will, in my own arsenal to fight too. Fighting against upheaval, you know, in life was the journal. Yeah. Really. I would've gone crazy without that.

[00:48:26] I mean, I was in a non marriage for many years. My husband was probably autistic. I don't know what the problem was. He just ignored everybody and had nothing to do with anybody. And I was his wife. I thought I would say wife are supposed to talk to him and you know, but I wouldn't talk to you. It was a crazy time.

[00:48:45] And at the same time, I was raising my two wonderful little kids, and I had just like a dichotomy going on, you know, trying to deal with him. That was crazy making. Then I'd turn around and I'd want to be mom, you know, a loving mom. And it was just, that was crazy times. And so I wrote out of desperation. I wrote in the journal all the time.

[00:49:06] And, That would have helped me survive. That always helps. Yeah. 

[00:49:12] Erich Wenzel: I can only imagine what that's like to, to not have, do, you know, craving some sort of response, but not being able to receive it. And the only outlet you have is to write it on a page. Like what to hope. Yeah, 

[00:49:24] Dierdre Wolownick: yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[00:49:26] So it's been a wild ride. Learning going on. 

[00:49:31] How have you grown in the first five?

[00:49:31] Erich Wenzel: So the other thing that we could bring up here is just like in the last five years since you're just so growth oriented is what you have become better at saying either no two and it doesn't have to be no either. Like what have you become better at, you're saying yes to or just realizations or changes of approaches that you've realized are not working for you anymore.

[00:49:53] Dierdre Wolownick: Huh? That's a big thing.  we need at least another hour. 

[00:50:00] Erich Wenzel: Well, there's always room for a round two.

[00:50:03] Dierdre Wolownick: Yeah, right. Saying no to, yeah. Yeah. I've been changing my tolerance level for a lot of those things. yeah. I grew up, I was raised to never say no. You know, I was raised to always acquiesce. To other people's wishes in the adults around me, the grown ups, you know, that kind of thing.

[00:50:23] Because I had to help my mother and I had to be there and I had to, you know, that was my life. And so that stays with you and, but there's a lot of people out there who don't treat you right. So I say, and, and I've been growing into learning how to say no to people. I'm not saying no outright, you'll know, but, but not to hang around with people who are toxic to me.

[00:50:48] You know, that kind of thing. not to let what toxic people do or say bother me. I get used to it, you know. so I've been working on that and that, that's a biggie. On a, on a more mundane note, I've been working on, I'm a homeowner. I have been since my husband died, I went to houses and, so I'm on everybody's list.

[00:51:11] I get just like today, I got a big thick wad of mail in my mailbox, you know, snail mail, paper mail, every envelope. It must have been about nine or 10 every one. Was a plea for my money, asking for my money, please support us. Please support us. Send me your money, every one of them. And so at the beginning, you know, when I became a homeowner on my own, after my husband died and my kids are gone, you know, in their own lives, I was alone and I did all this mail.

[00:51:41] I think. Oh yeah, I should support this group. Oh. And yeah, they should support, I feel really bad about, you know, saving the whales or whatever, say, you know, saving the national parks and all that stuff. And so I would keep all these things and they would accumulate and . Every once in a while I'd have to just kind of sweep off the desk and start again.

[00:52:02] And so now I just, I throw them all out and once in a while I go online and decide what I do want to support. I do that online, but it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous how much people demand and ask of you if you let them, if you let them. And so already having to not let them.

[00:52:23] Directing your attention

[00:52:23] Erich Wenzel: I feel like that attention is the ultimate resource for the individual. You know how you choose to use your attention, you know, with how much it can be fragmented. 

[00:52:34] Dierdre Wolownick: Now. Your attention. And especially of course your time. I mean, we have so little time on this planet. you have to decide where you want to spend it for. And that's another thing I've been on where I need to say yes to the adventures.

[00:52:47] You know, I'm all kinds of adventures. I kind, I didn't buy into the, this, you know, you're old enough to be a grandmother kind of thing. But, but still a, I probably, and. Pile it on too much, but heck no. I thought I want to go to Greece, to the Leon Evo, the, you know, Connie customer. Darn it. I'm going to go.

[00:53:08] You know, like the short, 

[00:53:10] Erich Wenzel: there's no boundaries for you at all. 

[00:53:13] Dierdre Wolownick: Not really. 

[00:53:14] Erich Wenzel: Life is your playground. 

[00:53:17] Dierdre Wolownick: That's right. Well, well, the boundaries right now are writing a lot of books and that takes hundreds and hundreds of hours every week and a lot of time. But, that's it. Time well spent, you know, that's, you know, getting out there and meeting such fascinating people all over the world.

[00:53:34] I spoke in England this past, whatever it was, November, and that was so much fun and I'd love to go back and do that. So, yeah, adventures. I'm open. 

[00:53:44] Writing process

[00:53:44] Erich Wenzel: So, however, now that you've mentioned writing so many times, I forgot to ask, what is your process like? Is it writing something that you just do?

[00:53:52] It's just like your outlet to the world with, you know, kind of comes from journaling to some degree. 

[00:53:56] Dierdre Wolownick: Yeah. It's all kind of intertwined. It kind of depends on what kind of writing. I mean, I still do freelance writing. I do articles and essays from magazines and stuff, and that's a very definite process.

[00:54:08] You know, I outlined what I want to do, what I want to say, what I want to talk about, and then I just go do it. You know, and then I'd go back and reread and stuff. That's like, well, I like writing for school essays. You know, formulate what you want to do. Yeah, yeah. Essays are all different.

[00:54:23] Obviously essays are more from the heart and, but still they have a purpose, you know, like a, a goal statement, if you will. And, I love that kind of thing. It's got a definite beginning and end and I start and I get there. And it's very satisfying. Books. Books are a grander scale. You know, books are a little bit different.

[00:54:43] I have, I have a lot of books out. And they're all very different. My latest, published book, this past October was, my, the second edition of my French textbook. 

[00:54:53] Wow. So, yeah, so doing a French textbook alone, I mean, most textbooks have like three or four or five authors, but I did this one by myself, and then it's published by a publisher in San Diego, and it's for college  French.

[00:55:07] And so that's, that's totally different. Way of writing approach to the whole  project. You know, it's more scientific. It's more, yes. More scientific. so yeah, so it depends what kind of writing and writing a boop book. Like they're calling my book a memoir, the sharp end of life, pulling a memoir. I never thought of it as a memoir, but I guess it is.

[00:55:31] But, writing something like that is a totally different experience. That's a very visceral level of writing. And, but at the same time, once you've got it on the page, then you need to make it more, not palatable. Exactly. More saleable, more, more approachable for the readers. So that's a different kind of process altogether.

[00:55:53] So I get, Oh, I could go on. 

[00:55:56] Erich Wenzel: That sounds like a whole separate podcast cause I'm, I'm honestly really fascinated about writing and overall, because, you know, again, as, as an engineer, I, I've. You know, you hear people say, well, you're, they're not good at communicating. So then my immediate reaction is, okay, if we're not, if I'm not supposed to be good at this, how do I get better at it?

[00:56:13] And usually that means do it, 

[00:56:17] Dierdre Wolownick: do it over and over and over every day, every day. And there's a better at anything you do every day, all the time, and you're going to get better at it. I try. My son's out there climbing every single day. So, 

[00:56:31] Erich Wenzel: you know, we're getting close to an hour and I know you have another podcast to go do.

[00:56:34] Dierdre Wolownick:  I do. 

[00:56:36] Erich Wenzel: I have a quick question. I'm just thinking about it right now and I'm, I'm tin to test it out on you because I've stayed away from it for a while, but 

[00:56:43] Dierdre Wolownick: it's, Oh, good, an experiment. I love it. 

[00:56:45] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, it's an experimental question cause I've been thinking about doing this as like a wrap up question, but what is feeding curiosity to you.

[00:56:53] What is feeding curiosity to you?

[00:56:53] Dierdre Wolownick: Huh? Yeah. I've been thinking about that since I learned the name of your podcast. I was thinking about that. We're born with limitless, boundless curiosity. You know, if you watch the little kids, you know, two year olds, three are boundless curiosity, and that applies to every domain of life, languages, math, how things happen in engineering.

[00:57:16] You know, everything. Kids want to know everything, and then they grow up and go to school and that's beaten out of them. And that's so sad to watch. sometimes it happens at home, you know, the parents outside up and go, go watch your program or whatever. You know, it's beaten out of them. It's there. It's taught out of them.

[00:57:34] Learning language is taught out of kids . It's sad to watch for me, and feeding through earth is the best thing we can do. Children. And for anybody for our jobs as well. But, I'm going back to the source, if you will. You know, cause it's, could we start to lose that  when we were going to school.

[00:57:56] And so feeding curiosity is like the single most important job in this life. So good, good, good, good on you. For the, from the title, you said, 

[00:58:06] Erich Wenzel: well, you know, it was one of those things that I. You know, it sounds funny to think about it now because it's probably going to get written about one day, but it's like I woke, I went to sleep one day and I was like, well, what do I do?

[00:58:17] Like what is it like? Cause I'm just so interested in just about everything. And I'm like, well, I'm going to say I'm just feeding curiosity. And I was like, Oh my God, 

[00:58:24] Dierdre Wolownick: that's it. You know? And then it's like. Exactly. And that's what my life has been. That's what my entire life has been about. I mean, I've been an orchestra conductor.

[00:58:34] I've worked through the airlines. I've been a tour guide in Melbourne, a multilingual tour guide in simple places. I've been a professor of five different languages all over the world. I've got all kinds of things, and every one of those feeds a different kind of curiosity. 

[00:58:51] Erich Wenzel: Absolutely. I couldn't agree more and I'm honestly just blown away that you have taken the time to talk to me, and this has been an amazing conversation and there's more than enough time to go go into a round two, but I really don't want to take up too much more of your time to get ready for another.

[00:59:07] Dierdre Wolownick: Absolutely. 

[00:59:09] Erich Wenzel: So 

[00:59:09] Dierdre Wolownick: thank you. Thanks for having me.