My guest today is long-time friend Joe Jackowski on today's episode. It was mostly us catching up with the pandemic.

We have not had a lot of time interacting with each other cause he still is living near the University of Michigan. So this was when he was home for the Christmas break, roughly. We got to catch up on what we're reading and thinking about recently.

For Joe, he's been doing a lot of reading with Erich Neumann and Camille Paglia. Much of this conversation is around—both their bodies of work and what he's been reading in their different writings or ponderings.

We get into different ideas about how humanity has built systems for itself and how. The systems elaborate over time, starting straightforward and archaic to us now, modern people.