Claudia Skowron: Stay In Your Situation

“Very few people when they hit that bucket list item, go back and say, you know what? I wish I didn’t do this. Very, very few, if ever. Right. You don’t do that. You say, God, I wish I would’ve done it sooner.”
— Claudia Skowron

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Claudia is someone who prefers to go by many hats. By day she works an adolescent/young adult mental health therapist in private practice. Outside of her professional career, she enjoys sports/exercise, dinners with friends, and above all, TRAVEL. 2019 was the year of battling several major health conditions while still trying to live life to the fullest.

Claudia has been a featured TEDx speaker, presented at the IABH Conference, and most recently received her certification in Clinical Neurofeedback. She takes her academic knowledge, paired with her personal experiences in overcoming health concerns to impact those around her.

Connect with Claudia

Email: cmskowron@gmail.com

Instagram: @meet.claudia

Show Notes

[00:04:27] The Start of Claudia's 2019

[00:04:55] Recovering from a Concussion

Concussion Grades

“I struggled with horrible post-concussive syndrome, which literally messed up my life for a while. I mean, it was very bad. I was extremely dizzy. And still, I'm struggling with some of that stuff now. It's been, I mean, almost a year, but, yeah, just super dizzy, like confused.

I couldn't find words. I remember talking to one of my friends on the phone, and I was eating a salad, using a fork, and I don't know why. I was looking for the word fork to explain that to her. But, I'm looking for the word fork, and I'm like, you know, that thing that you eat a salad with? And she goes, what are you talking about Claudia?

I'm like, you know that thing, that thing that you tensile that you eat a salad with? She goes, you need a fork. And I'm like, Oh my God. But that like hit me, cause I'm like, Oh my God, I like what is going on? I can't find words. So that was really scary. I feel like super duper lethargic, and I mean that on its own level when you think of lethargy, you think of being tired and just, you know, fatigued.

But this is like you felt like you got hit by a bus, and every muscle in your body weighed 500 pounds. You couldn't get up. And it's the simplest things that, you know, took so much effort and energy, having conversations with people or like getting up and going to the bathroom. So that's how 2019 started.”

[00:07:20] Hashimoto's Diagnosis

Hashimoto’s Diseases

“Hashimoto's has been a big struggle, and that's an autoimmune thyroid disease. And so again, it makes you just like a super, super lethargic, really fatigued, and that's been a real struggle. For me, normally and naturally, I'm super active. I'm traveling a lot. I'm in the gym five days a week. I mean, I have a ton of energy. 

So all this stuff happened, and I did not feel like me. And I mean, as you can imagine, that makes you feel incredibly depressed, really lonely, super isolative. You're trying to explain this to people. And the hardest part is. People expect you to get better, right? And after a couple of months, if you're not getting better, you really kind of notice people that are truly there for you.

And I don't mean that in some sappy way, but you really kind of figure out who is there for you and if he's not there for you. So I guess, you know, the silver lining again of 2019 is, you know, I know my social circle, and you know, those people that are there for me, but, Yeah. So I think the theme here with 2019 is how do you continue to live your life, the life that you had before with all these new struggles that are like significantly getting in the way like significantly out of your normal frame of functioning.”

[00:10:00] Managing Hashimoto's Symptoms - Food is Medicine

[00:10:58] Getting Stuck in a Loop

[00:13:02] What has worked best for Claudia so far?

“I think nutrition is, you know, a big piece of what I'm going through right now. Going gluten-free has helped. I know I can still do a little bit better. I know I'm a lot of people talk about a plant-based diet.”

“I still go to the gym, but I've had to alter my exercises before, you know, I would go to the gym and I would. You know, kind of push it probably a little bit harder than I need to and do like, you know, like I'm going to do six miles in this time frame and like really pushed my body.

No, I can't do that anymore. So now it's, you know, maybe tone it down a little bit, maybe run three miles, you know, and try to go for a nine, 10-minute mile, which before I would have been like, no, you can do better than that. But again, it's working with your body.”

[00:15:55] Mindfulness and Sitting with Your Thoughts

“I think a lot of people don't know exactly what mindfulness is. And again, it's the idea of just giving your space to be right here right now at this exact moment.

Don't try and change anything. Don't try and alter your thoughts in any way. Just be here at this exact moment. And I think, I mean, it takes a lot of practice. You know, I'm still trying to figure it out, and I learned, you know, this stuff, what, ten plus years ago in graduate school, and I in no way a pro, I'm still struggling with it, but yeah, you have to give space for that.”

[00:17:39] Situational Awareness of the Body

[00:19:54] Separate Acceptance from Change

“You really kind of have to separate acceptance from change. And a lot of people have it crisscrossed where we try to accept the things that we actually can change.

And then we tried to change the things that, you know, we have to accept. Right? So it's uncrossing crossing your wires. So for me, it's, you know, what do I have to accept right now? Well, you have to accept that you have this diagnosis. You have to accept that you know, your antibodies are elevated. And right now, at this moment, you have to accept that you're feeling ridiculously lethargic, and you know, you can't snap your fingers and get out of it.

What can you change? Okay, well, you know what? I can change my mindset. I can change my support system around me. I can change my nutrition. And that's how you create those small changes. And again, I think a lot of us have it crisscrossed. And that leads to so much frustration, but that's a hard thing to do because who wants to accept that?

Well, this is how I feel now. And I don't know, is that ever going to go away? Is that not? And I think what really helps me is acceptance does not equal approval. I accept what I'm going through because I have to, that's my reality, but in no way do I approve of what's happening to me. Right, and that helps.“

[00:21:06] What Can You Control?

[00:23:17] Being Transparent

 I Don't Want To Talk About It by Terrence Real

Covert depression

[00:26:29] Stay In Your Situation

[00:29:07] Being an Active Consumer

How to Configure Your iPhone to Work for You, Not Against You by Coach Tony | Medium

[00:30:51] Light Exposure

Currently used Wake Up Light

HumanCharger (Light Headphones)

Bonus Bluelight Blocking glasses - Gunnar and Felix Grey

[00:35:36] Fish Oil and D3

Currently used Fish Oil and D3: UnoCardio 1000 | WHC

Recommended Podcast: #83 – Bill Harris, Ph.D.: Omega-3 fatty acids

[00:36:44] Self Experiments - Fasting, Sleep Tracking, and Habits

Recommended App: Zero Fasting

Read More: Wearable: Meet Whoop and Oura Ring

[00:40:14] Wearables and Stress Measurement

Everything You Need to Know About Heart Rate Variability (HRV) | Whoop

[00:42:34] Neurofeedback

What is Neurofeedback? | Psychology Today

What is Neurofeedback? | EEG Info

Neurofeedback: A Comprehensive Review on System Design, Methodology and Clinical Applications

[00:45:52] A Different View on Positivity

“You know, all these positive messages, you know, positive quotes. You know, this is the travel story that I'm doing this, which is. Great stuff. The problem with it is there is such a thing as too much, and so, you know, it makes people feel like they can never have that. Right. It's this unrealistic, very idealistic level of positivity and happiness.

Then, the take-home message here is that there is such a thing as too much, and I think we have to be very mindful of, have I crossed over into too much positivity, which is now actually inversely going to cause low mood, depression, anxiety, that kind of a thing. So I think the goal is, you know, we want to feed into positivity for sure, but we want to leave room for unpleasant emotions too.

You know, that's part of the human experience. We have anxiety. We have frustration, and we have sadness. We can't pretend like that stuff doesn't exist. We can't dismiss it. We can't turn our heads to it because it's there. And for people that do that, they'll rebound, and then I'll get you twice as bad later.”

[00:49:34] Motivation is the Easy Part

[00:51:19] Travel - Costa Rica and Iceland

[00:53:06] World Citizens

Recommended Book: Born a Crime by Trevor Noah 

[00:57:08] Travel Logistics 

[00:59:35] Currency of Time

“Very few people when they hit that bucket list item, go back and say, you know what? I wish I didn't do this. Very, very few, if ever. Right. You don't do that. You say, God, I wish I would've done it sooner.”

[01:01:27] Being Open to Experience

[01:04:08] Gifting Books and Experiences

More reading here: Worth Reading: Most Impactful Books of 2019

[01:06:16] What are You Excited about for 2020

“I think, you know, even in even further, so opening up my frame of lens to and taking on whatever opportunities life gives me. You know what I think, too, if I can give back, and if someone can listen to this podcast or if someone is influenced by my Hashimoto's struggles in a positive way.

I mean, that, that's the ultimate cherry on top is this is my story and I shared it and, you know, hopefully, someone got something positive out of it or was motivated or inspired and at the end of the day, even if it's just one person. That's enough.”

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Full Transcript Episode 85 - Claudia Skowron: Stay In Your Situation

[00:03:46] Erich Wenzel: And we're back with another episode of Feeding Curiosity, and we're joined again with a returning guest. I think you're probably like the second one outside of like the major friends. Claudia

[00:03:55] Claudia Skowron: Thank you for having me again. 

[00:03:57] Erich Wenzel: It's been a wild ride. I think you're on like episode 26 or something like that, and now we're over 80.

[00:04:03]Claudia Skowron: Wow.

[00:04:05] Erich Wenzel: The first time I was here was like just about a year ago, like exactly. It was exactly a year ago. Yeah. Cause your podcast went, I think the twenties like first or something or something like that. Yeah. So it's kind of crazy.

[00:04:15] Claudia Skowron: Happy anniversary.

[00:04:16] Erich Wenzel: I know, right. Podcast anniversary. Is that a thing? Do people do that? 

[00:04:20] Claudia Skowron: It is now!

[00:04:22] Erich Wenzel: But you've had a wild ride of 2019 that's for sure. 

[00:04:27] The Start of Claudia's 2019

[00:04:27] Claudia Skowron: Yeah. 2019 has been, A very rough, challenging, but growthful year as well, I suppose. But yeah, it's, I actually started off 2019 with a grade three concussion. Oh, wow. I don't even know if you knew that would be, yeah. So I literally started off 2019 with a concussion.

[00:04:43]and it was all kind of just downhill or uphill, downhill, downhill from there. so yeah, that's, that's, that's how we started. And you know, you keep kind of trucking along and. You know, you do the best you can with whatever cards are given. 

[00:04:55] Recovering from a Concussion

[00:04:55] Erich Wenzel: So for the concussion. Just for grading system sake. I didn't even know there were grades for concussions. What does a grade three mean?

[00:05:02]Claudia Skowron: So I think, you know, and I'm not a doctor here, so don't, don't quote me on this, but I think grade one is just kind of feel like a little bit dizzy, right? Grade two, I, I don't think you get knocked out with grade two. Grade three you get knocked out and like you see stars.

[00:05:16] Right? And I was at that point where I was like, Whoa, like super woozy and dizzy for, I mean, like. Five minutes, but, the actual concussion, I mean, that was super duper painful. But what came after? I mean, that, that's the part that people don't really talk about. You know, you have a concussion, your head hurts, you hit it, and then you get better.

[00:05:34] But, I struggled with horrible post-concussive syndrome, which literally messed up my life for a while. I mean, it was very bad. I was. Extremely dizzy. and still, actually, I'm struggling with some of that stuff now. It's been, I mean, almost a year, but, yeah, just super dizzy, like really confused.

[00:05:52] I couldn't find words. I remember talking to one of my friends on the phone and I was eating a salad, using a fork, and I don't know why. I. Was looking for the word fork to explain that to her. But, I'm looking for the word fork and I'm like, you know, that thing that she is salad with? And she goes, what are you talking about Claudia?

[00:06:06] I'm like, you know that thing, that thing that you tensile that you eat a salad with? She goes, you need a fork. And I'm like, Oh my God. But that like hit me, cause I'm like, Oh my God, I like what is going on? I can't find words. So that was really scary. I just feel like super duper lethargic and I mean that, that on his own level is, you know, when you think of lethargy, you think of being tired and just, you know, fatigued.

[00:06:29] But this is like, I mean, you felt like you got hit by a bus and every muscle in your body weighed 500 pounds. You just couldn't get up. And it's the simplest things that, you know, took so much effort and energy, having conversations with people or like getting up and going to the bathroom. So, Yeah that's how 2019 started.

[00:06:50] Erich Wenzel: Just having all your willpower goes into just getting out of bed in the morning, basically. Yeah. It's crazy. Most people don't think about compression or concussion as being such a long term injury like that. Like, you know, we're, we know so much more about CTE nowadays, but it's still like, I don't think we get talk about the lingering effects of stuff like that.

[00:07:10] I was going to ask how long or have you still felt symptoms of it? And you answered that question already, but that's insane. So from there, what happened as your year unfolded?

[00:07:20] Hashimoto's Diagnosis

[00:07:20] Claudia Skowron: Yeah, so then, my symptoms went away for the month of March, and I'm like, Oh, great. Everything is good. Like, I'm back to normal.

[00:07:28]and then at the beginning of April, again, I don't know what happened, but I started to feel really out of it really dizzy, really like super fatigued and lethargic. went through a whole bunch of medical testing, had an MRI done on my brain, like, you name it. I mean, on my own. That was getting pricked, you know, once or twice a week at that point.

[00:07:46] And at that point, they uncovered that I have Hashimoto's, which is an autoimmune thyroid disease that I did not know. And that actually came about from the concussion testing. So I don't know, I mean, maybe like silver lining that we found that out through that. 

[00:07:59] But, Hashimoto's has been a big struggle and that's the autoimmune thyroid disease. And so again, it makes you just like a super, super lethargic, really fatigued. and that's been a real struggle. For me, cause normally and naturally I'm super active. I'm traveling a lot. I'm in the gym five days a week. I mean, I have a ton of energy. So all this stuff happened and I just did not feel like me.

[00:08:21] And I mean, as you can imagine, that makes you feel incredibly depressed, really lonely, super isolative. You're trying to explain this to people. And the hardest part is. People expect you to get better, right? And after a couple months, if you're not getting better you really kind of notice people that are truly there for you.

[00:08:38] And I don't mean that in some sappy way, but you really kind of figure out who is there for you and if he's not there for you. so I guess, you know, the silver lining again of 2019 is, you know, I know my social circle and you know, those people that are there for me, but, Yeah. So I think the theme here with 2019 is how do you continue to live your life, the life that you had before with all these new struggles that are like significantly getting in the way like significantly out of your normal frame of functioning.

[00:09:05] Erich Wenzel: Is Hashimoto's something that you're like inherited or is it just triggered? I don't know. I don't even know too much about,

[00:09:12] Claudia Skowron: Yeah. So with any autoimmune disease, you're going to have some type of genetic predisposition where my mom actually has hypothyroidism. She doesn't have the autoimmune thyroid condition that I do, but she has thyroid issues.

[00:09:24] And so you have. A genetic predisposition and then based off of just your environment nutrition, which I've learned a lot about this year, I'm just in my environmental factors. You know, that's how you, I guess, trigger. I'm an autoimmune disease. 

[00:09:43] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, that makes sense. Cause I've heard a lot about hyperthyroidism. I think my mom actually has to take medicine for it now herself. And it's one of those things you don't really think about is like hormone functioning and how some of the simplest things that just kind of seem to work in the background and all of a sudden when it's not working like you expect it to, it just has a profound shift in your day to day feeling.

[00:10:00] Managing Hashimoto's Symptoms - Food is Medicine

[00:10:00]For you it was slow and steady, like just trying things to see what changed or worked over time. Was that really just trial and error? 

[00:10:10] Claudia Skowron: Yeah, and I mean, I, I'll be honest with you, I'm still trying to figure it out, you know, the very first thing that I went to was nutrition. I'm a firm believer that nutrition heals, you know, food is medicine.

[00:10:20]and a lot of autoimmune disease actually originates in the gut. and so I went the nutritional route and I thought that my nutrition before all this was pretty good. And I was, I was eating healthy. You know, I don't eat, you know, a ton of crappy food but there's always room for improvement. Right.

[00:10:34] So, I went on a nutritional route. I actually went gluten free. I've been going free since June and that's challenging, but I do feel better. I do feel better. and so, you know, I don't know that there's one solution to this stuff, right? There's different things that you do. You kind of have to work with your body.

[00:10:52]Some weeks are better than other weeks, and you just really kind of have to work with what your body's giving you. 

[00:10:58] Getting Stuck in a Loop

[00:10:58] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, I didn't think that, that makes a lot of sense and it's not, one of the things that a lot of people think about is just when you have to, or at least I think when, when it comes to nutrition, I think it makes more sense sometimes to remove certain stimuli of certain like inputs when it comes to quality of food to try and see if you feel better, which is, I know, really not a good measure 

[00:11:20] Claudia Skowron: But the elimination diet, you know, doctors talk about it, right? Where, you know, we, we don't really know if it's gluten. We don't know if it's dairy. We don't know if it's, I don't know, whatever. Right? And so I said, you know, what? What the hell do I have to lose?

[00:11:33] Right. Let's try it. and yeah, I do feel a little bit better. I don't have celiacs. I don't have any of that. But, you know, I figured. You know, it's not going to hurt.

[00:11:40] Erich Wenzel: Right. I mean, it's somewhat of my brother's story. He was, he had like these rashes over the summer and stuff like that. They're kind of popping up and they would only be like really bad in the morning and at night, like before bed and stuff, and they'd kind of flare up and then go away.

[00:11:52] And, you know, he goes, he goes to the doctor many times and it's like a slow process of doing allergy tests. 

[00:11:58] Claudia Skowron: Oh my god, it's so frustrating. You know, and you feel like you're going in a circle because, and I get it. You know, they're doing all the tests that they can, and then sometimes everything comes back negative and you're like, great, but no, because now I don't really know what's going on.

[00:12:14] Erich Wenzel:  And so you're like constantly in just this loop of trying to figure it out. Cause like it wound up basically going full circle. And the guy he went to first was like, this looks like chickenpox, but obviously he's too old to have a chicken pox. And he had it when he was little. It turns out though he had a version of 'em.

[00:12:29] Shingles. Oh no. But he's only like 24 so like you don't know me think that shingles would happen, but then obviously he has to get on to like steroids and stuff to get rid of it. And those things destroy, you know, you're functioning for a little while too, because they're not, yeah. They're just not fun on your system.

[00:12:46] So yeah, it's, it's been a little, I get that stuff where you just kind of have to start. Turning knobs is basically just to kind of.

[00:12:55] Claudia Skowron: You have to help yourself. You know, doctors only go so far, and that's where you really have to pull from, like inner willpower and self-discipline. You got to heal yourself.

[00:13:02] What has worked best for Claudia so far?

[00:13:02] Erich Wenzel:  What worked best for you so far? At least what seems to be doing like the most bang for your buck. 

[00:13:07] Claudia Skowron: Again, nutrition. I think nutrition is, you know, a big piece of what I'm going through right now. Going gluten free has helped. I know I can still do a little bit better. I know I'm, a lot of people talk about a plant based diet.

[00:13:18] That's tough for me cause I like meat but maybe, you know, that's something to explore too. so that, you know, nutrition's big. I still go to the gym, but I've had to alter my exercises before, you know, I would go to the gym and I would. You know, kind of push it probably a little bit harder than I need to and do like, you know, like I'm going to do six miles in this timeframe and like really pushed my body.

[00:13:39]No, I can't do that anymore. So now it's, you know, maybe tone it down a little bit, maybe run three miles, you know, and try to go for a nine, 10 minute mile, which before I would have been like, no you can do better than that. But again, it's working with your body. Yeah. 

[00:13:52] That, and to be totally honest with you, you really have to find a super strong social support circle. If you don't have that, I mean, you don't have anything you, you really, really need that.

[00:14:04]And so I think when it comes to health issues. Again, you figure out those people that are really gonna stand by your side. You know, even if you're not getting better in a month or in a week or whatever it may be, the other people that want you around because you're fun, they're going to weed themselves out pretty quick, but you got to find social support, whether that's through family, whether that's through friends, whether that's through, you know, going to a therapist, whether that's through listening to motivational things, but that's 100% key.

[00:14:31] Erich Wenzel: It's definitely been a big through line for me in 2019 I've just kind of having I like to call them like pressure relief valves like having friends and people around you that like pull you into the present. Like when you know that you're like. Too stressed out or thinking about something. Like for me, I can always do more things like at work, like stay later or something like that.

[00:14:49] Like I'll stay two more hours, you know? And then by the time you stay two more hours and you're like, I don't think I'll go to the gym. And so having people around you that it's like, Oh Hey, I said I was going to go do this thing with them. Or like they said, I'll go to the gym at this time, you've got to make sure you leave,

[00:15:04]Claudia Skowron: I like to call them accountabila-buddies 

[00:15:07] Erich Wenzel: Ooh, that's a new one. I like that one! 

[00:15:09] Claudia Skowron: They keep you accountable. 

[00:15:13] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. That's really good. I liked that a lot because we all keep each other in check. You know? Some of my friends like Jordan and stuff like that, we, we, we'd always kind of, you know, half of it's fun and joking around. The other half is like, you know, you've been working like chill out dude.

[00:15:27] Or like, Hey, we've noticed you've been like doing, like if they notice you say you're like stuck in your own head or just kind of like isolating yourself without even meaning it. Something like that. Someone to check in on you and I think is super huge. Absolutely. Because the, the inner, the inner workings of the brain, right? I mean, you deal with this all the time. 

[00:15:46] Claudia Skowron: You have to get really good at capping things, you know, and not only work, but you have to have emotional caps or boundaries, you know? Cause if you don't, you're getting sauce yourself, you're gonna burn out.

[00:15:55] Mindfulness and Sitting with Your Thoughts

[00:15:55] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. It's seriously been like a huge thing, especially as engineers or people in technical professions.

[00:16:02] It feels like you always kind of have to be productive to some degree. Like there's always like this underlying assumption of like you have to be kind of, if you're not doing something productive, then you're just wasting time. And it's like that's not like sometimes the best thing you can do for yourself is do nothing.

[00:16:18] Like, I don't know if you want to unpack, see some views on things like mindfulness or meditation. Cause I think it's a really, it's kind of a hot button and kind of buzzwordy with Calm and Headspace being huge now, but I think it's worth unpacking it more than just going into like the app stuff, like just talking about giving yourself space.

[00:16:38] Claudia Skowron: Yeah, absolutely. You know, and I mean there's, there's endless amounts of research on mindfulness and meditation and how it's just helps with optimum functioning with people. You know? I think a lot of people don't really know exactly what mindfulness is. And again, it's the idea of just kind of giving your space to be right here right now at this exact moment.

[00:16:56] Don't try and change anything. Don't try and alter your thoughts in any way. Just kind of be here in this exact moment. And I think, I mean, it takes a lot of practice. You know, I'm still trying to figure it out and I learned, you know, this stuff, what, 10 plus years ago in graduate school, and I in no way a pro, I'm still struggling with it, but yeah, you really kind of have to give space for that.

[00:17:15]you know, what happens? We live in a very go, go, go constant, you know, rushy world. And so, you know, if you really feed into that, and then that moment that you do have some downtime, that almost creates anxiety just because you're not used to feeling that. Right. And so then you try and overcompensate and then you do more, and now you've got this vicious cycle of like constant go, go, go, go, go.

[00:17:34] Which is just feeding into anxiety and you know, it's going to obviously affect productivity and then everything else in between.

[00:17:39] Situational Awareness of the Body

[00:17:39] Erich Wenzel: That's seriously how I like to expand on it so much because it's like you got to give yourself like the ability to just chill, like do nothing, like sit alone with your thoughts.

[00:17:49] It's kind of the deeper end of the pond of this spectrum where it's like you got to actually give yourself the ability to kind of just see what's going on and like check in with yourself is kind of what I go with it. It's like, okay. I'm feeling a little, or at least the higher level, like once you get used to doing it to some degree, like you can take a deep breath.

[00:18:07] You can actually notice yourself being like, Oh, I'm a little frustrated right now. Or I'm a little like agitated to some, like maybe you can't put a finger on it, but you can just know that you're not your normal self to some degree. Right. And if you can link, you know what your body is doing with your mind too.

[00:18:21] Claudia Skowron: Right now I'm getting a little bit frustrated and I know that because, Oh, like my heart rate is increasing a little bit, or you know, I'm, I'm kinda fidgeting a little bit more, maybe like I'm picking up my nail or something. You know? Just that awareness. That's mindfulness too.

[00:18:33] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. Yes. I think it's one of those things that so many people have such bad marketing to it that people assume like you so easily conjures you know, and snap images of someone sitting on a pillow cross-legged, or maybe they're into incense burning or something like that. And most people have like an, you know, a gag reflex to that. And it's not really about that even if you just can take a deep breath.

[00:18:59] Like before you go into a meeting, like you say, you're, I don't know where you would work, but say there's like a morning meeting you have every once a week and you know you're not going to enjoy it. Maybe try and take a deep breath before you walk into that meeting because it activates your parasympathetic nervous system before you go in.

[00:19:14] You're going to feel a lot more calm at that moment, and then you'll just, you know, just kind of let it roll off your shoulders because it's not worth losing that extra.

[00:19:23] Claudia Skowron: 100%  100% so I think if you know, our society kind of practices mindfulness as a whole, a little bit more, I think we'd all be a little bit happier and less anxious and we would just function better.

[00:19:34] Erich Wenzel: Absolutely so from there, I guess. It might be worth it, cause you've talked about kind of personal things like growing with nutrition and mindfulness and stuff like that because I feel like Hashimoto's is like a mindfulness practice in itself. Just kind of being okay like just not being upset at your own body cause it's like you're kind of almost a prisoner right. 

[00:19:54] Separate Acceptance from Change

[00:19:54] Claudia Skowron: It's a fine line between, and I always tell people, I'm not only just my patients, but me too, is you really kind of have to separate, acceptance from change. And a lot of people have it crisscrossed where we try to accept the things that we actually can change.

[00:20:09] And then we tried to change the things that, you know, we have to accept. Right? So it's uncross crossing your wires. So for me, it's, you know, what do I have to accept right now? Well, you have to accept that you have this diagnosis. You have to accept that you know, your antibodies are elevated. And right now at this moment you have to accept that you're feeling ridiculously lethargic and you know, you can't snap your fingers and get out of it.

[00:20:28] What can you change? Okay, well, you know what? I can change my mindset, right? I can change my support system around me. I can change my nutrition. And that's how you create those small changes. So. You know? And again, I think a lot of us have it crisscrossed right? And that leads to, again, so much frustration, but that's a hard thing to do because who wants to accept that?

[00:20:47] Well, this is how I feel now. And I don't know, is that ever going to go away? Is that not? and I think what really helps me is acceptance does not equal approval. I accept what I'm going through because I have to, that's my reality, but in no way do I approve of what's happening to me. Right and that helps. 

[00:21:06] What Can You Control?

[00:21:06] Erich Wenzel: Yes. Yeah, that's super interesting is, and it's such a common theme where people who have to go through like crucibles where it changes their entire outlook of like something is in quotation marks taken away from them, and it's. Putting it stark contracts, what you can control in your life.

[00:21:20] And realistically, we can only control a few different things. You know, it's like how we look at the situation and how we respond to that situation. And then what can we do about it? And the only thing we can do is just kind of take it for the next moment and getting caught up about like, I wish it was different.

[00:21:35] Doesn't help anything other than triggering anxiety and depression. Absolutely. And so if we can just say, okay, what can I do that is in my control is really the only question you can ask and not getting caught up in the things that you can. 

[00:21:47] Claudia Skowron: And again, going back to mindfulness, that's mindfulness right moment, you know, I can't go back a month from now. I can't fast forward two months from now, right? At this exact moment. How do I feel and what are my areas of change? What can I control? 

[00:21:59] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. That's awesome. I like that a lot. And it's, it's one of those things that it sounds super fluffy to some degree, but I really try not to make this stuff sound fluffy because it's

[00:22:09] Claudia Skowron: It may be fluffy, but it's real. You know what I mean? And that's where, you know, it's hard to explain that to somebody, you know, through a microphone or having a conversation. But it's very real when you're going through it, all the fluffy stuff, it kind of clicks and it makes sense. And it's like. God, I get it now. You know? I get it. 

[00:22:24] Erich Wenzel: I guess it's when, when you, when all the chips are on the table and you don't have a choice, but to kind of like, this is what you have, or it's, or it's like on the other end of spectrum, it's like when everything seems like it's okay and it's like, eh, I could choose to do that or not.

[00:22:37] You know? It's like I could choose either a big Mac or I could choose to eat healthy when it's not life or death or you know, some sort of medical condition that you actually can't eat that anymore. Then it doesn't feel as like, puts it in stark contrast to what you should really be valuing. 

[00:22:52] Claudia Skowron: Absolutely. You know, I think we also have to kind of, I would say stay in your situation, right. Where this is the hand of cards I've been dealt and you know, maybe, and that's my genetics perhaps. Right. I can't control that piece, but I can certainly shuffle my hand cards. I can shuffle the deck. Right. You know? And with that, I can play my hand to cards as best as I possibly can, but you know, I have to accept that this is what I have, you know, you can have a really crappy hand of cards with, they'll probably play it really well.

[00:23:17] Being Transparent

[00:23:17] Erich Wenzel: That's awesome. It's not every day that people have a sense of clarity to be able to. Not only one, take an experience such as yours, and then also be able to extract something from it that is not only with particularly your situation, but just probably applicable to just how you live better.

[00:23:37] Claudia Skowron: And I'm trying to, you know, I by no means do everything perfectly. And of course I certainly have those moments that, you know, like it really does get to me and you know, I cry and it's so hard, you know. There are two. One, and that does need to be highlighted. You know, again, it sounds really pretty when you talk about it, but an application, I mean, I have really hard moments too, and so I'm like anybody else.

[00:23:56]But you give yourself space for that. You give yourself permission to kind of go through it and then you cap it and you say, all right, that's enough. I cried for 30 minutes. Like, get up and go do something. That's what I do. 

[00:24:07] Erich Wenzel: I think you've done a decent job of pushing yourself to be as transparent about it on your own social pages and stuff like that.

[00:24:15] Because I think it's, I mean people don't highlight, cause it's so easy to just be like, I'm gonna put my life's highlight reel up here on you know, for all to see. Cause you don't want it like. Cause it's, well, one being vulnerable is not easy. And then as a guy to say the word vulnerable is almost taboo.

[00:24:30] It's kinda changing a little bit. And I've tried to do my own work in this space to try to talk about mental illness as in from the male perspective and things like that. I've read books on, there's a book called, I Don't Want To Talk About It by Terrence Real. It was written in the late nineties, but Terrence Real is a clinical psychologist.

[00:24:47] Mostly in couples therapy, but he, he focuses on male depression in the book, and he basically lays out this idea of like. There's overt depression is what we talk about is like the standard measure of you pull inwards and you don't want to talk to anybody. And then he talks about this other version that's called covert depression, where it's manifested itself in the exact opposite ways, which is usually expressed in men as like alcoholism, workaholism you become like destructive forces in nature of those around.

[00:25:15] Yeah. And so. It basically has out this entire thing. And with his own story attached to it, cause he was abused as a child from his own father. And it's like this cycle of pain basically, that it gets perpetuated within families that pass it. Like almost like a gene learn behavior. Yeah. And so it just, this thing where it's like, and then too, it goes like.

[00:25:35] By my dad doing this, I choose, I don't want to do that, right? There's that someone says, I don't ever want to be like my father, but then it like overcompensates and then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. And so I try to share this book and I've talked about it a lot because I think it's like, even though I don't have any of those kind of things, I still think it's worth looking at because it's the sociology and socialization to understand how there's other triggers of these things that manifest themselves.

[00:26:01] And, Just talking about my own struggles. Like, it's like I talk about this stuff as like high watermarks, like what may seem hard for you, right? Like you're dealing with Hashimoto's and someone on the outside looking in might be like, that doesn't sound all that difficult or whatever. Right? Whoever you are.

[00:26:16] I'm just painting a picture here, but for someone else to compare themselves to you and say, wow, I don't have any reason to complain. That's not disingenuous to yourself because everyone's threshold is different. 

[00:26:29] Stay In Your Situation

[00:26:29] Claudia Skowron: 100% stay in your situation. Literally, that is the theme of like every session I have is stay in your situation.

[00:26:35] You don't belong in other people's situations. You belong on your own, you know, and I don't care if the rug is making you super upset, right? That's very real to you right now. So stain your situation. Let's work through that. The second that you go into other people's situations, I mean, you're going to do yourself a huge disservice because first off, you're going to compare up, right?

[00:26:52] Like, Oh, this person has it so much worse than me, right? And so like, why am I even complaining? Or you're going to compare down. You know, and that's no better. So in your situation, play your hand cards. 

[00:27:03] Erich Wenzel: This has triggered a thought for me. Do you, do you try to. I wouldn't say prescribed, but like limit social media use for certain people.

[00:27:11] Claudia Skowron: 100% absolutely, yes!

[00:27:13] Erich Wenzel: I'm just curious because I, you know, you hear like social media fasts, kind of like a common thing or growing probably exponentially at this point.

[00:27:21] I'm just curious if it's kind of starting to bubble into the. Clinical sphere to be like, Hey, you should really look at how much you're using social media.

[00:27:25] Claudia Skowron: Oh yeah, absolutely. Yes. Yes. I'm first and foremost, I think social media detoxes are fantastic. And again, I'm not perfect. You know, I could get better at that too, so just like anyone else.

[00:27:38] But, I think you have to be very mindful too, of, okay, do I find myself going on my Instagram page and okay, cool on my newsfeed, I have all these, you know, beautiful models. And then I look at these pages and I look at them and I'll go, my God, you know, I'm not six foot one, you know, I'm not that thin, whatever it may be.

[00:27:52] Me and you have to be mindful of, you know, is this triggering an emotion for me and for many of us, let's be real. It would. Right? And so how much time are you spending on that site and what are you really feeding your brain, right? And then you, you expect to, to not struggle with low mood or depression or anxiety.

[00:28:07] What are you putting in your brain?

[00:28:09] Erich Wenzel:  To think of like anything we do is like, we have this image. Limited tension of awareness, like absorbing content in whatever way. And it's very similar to nutrition and is, my view is if you're absorbing low quality content all day, you're going to have a low quality outlook on life.

[00:28:24] So you need to really be conscious of what it is that you're absorbing. Go look, download audio books or podcasts or something like read a book or read something online that's not like so negatively charged or allows you to have those ruminative thoughts.

[00:28:39] Claudia Skowron:  I don't want to slam, you know, Instagram or social media. I think there's actually a lot of good that can come from that too. You know, and I know on my platform I have. Again, I reached out to a lot of people. I talk about, you know, my struggles with, you know, the autoimmune issues, but how I keep traveling and living my life. I have so many people that reach out to me, and so, you know, again, there's a lot of good that comes from it.

[00:28:59] I also make a very Valiant effort to not follow pages that are not going to be conducive to my personal growth in any way. 

[00:29:07] Being an Active Consumer

[00:29:07] Erich Wenzel: I think that's the most important part is just not. Like being an active consumer, like being, not just following something because it's like, Oh, but yeah, I'm just going to click the follow button.

[00:29:15] Like actually look at what you're following and be like, does this actually serve a purpose? Yeah, and also to be very cognizant of your, like we all have biases. So it, it's, it's worth understanding that too. So I, I really, I could go all day with social media. And how would this affect your quality of health?

[00:29:33] Cause I'd really talk about all the time, because it's just these emergent systems just push all of our buttons and they have, you know, it's like I talk about our phones as being like IV drips of dopamine. For the most part. 

[00:29:45] Claudia Skowron: Yes. Well, that triggers a response. The second that you know, your phone vibrates or you know the light goes off, that you have a text, you know, you instantly go to it, right?

[00:29:52] That's dopamine being activated all the time. Constant, constant, constant. So, and that's the addiction with cell phones. That's the addiction. With the stupid little notification pop up. 

[00:30:01] Erich Wenzel: I turned off all of those. I found this really nerdy article about how to make your phone work for you and it's basically going through your iPhone and turning off like 90% of notifications, like alphabetizing the structure.

[00:30:10] So it's like the front page. If you press the home button is only the things that you like, the most useful things and then when you swipe right, it's kind of like the extra stuff. 

[00:30:18] Claudia Skowron: Yes. I love that. Yup. I love that. I always tell her, you know, like the patients I work with, the kids I work with, if they are literally on Facebook or Instagram or Twitter or Snapchat or whatever they even have anymore, and I say, you know, make that a separate folder and literally put it somewhere else in your phone so that it's not, you know, right there in the front.

[00:30:35] Don't make it one of the bottom four or something like that. Absolutely. And the research is there. Such high correlates between people who just kind of pause, you know, either take a break or limit the amount of social media usage. I mean, subjective wellbeing goes up. Yeah. That's not even my opinion. I mean, look at the research.

[00:30:51] Light Exposure

[00:30:51] Erich Wenzel: So yeah, I mean it's, it's such a huge thing and I just think the more we talk about it, the better. Like the more we hopefully start like a bubbling movement. That's why I keep bringing it up. Do you do anything with like light exposure because of all the artificial light that we have are starting to look into it.

[00:31:06] Claudia Skowron: Light exposure in terms of...

[00:31:08] Erich Wenzel: Limiting blue light exposure.

[00:31:09] Claudia Skowron: Oh blue light exposure. yeah, so that, I mean I can't say I talk about that specifically, like in my, in my sessions, you know, I do my due diligence again of being really mindful of the blue light. Like I, you know, on my phone I have it turned on to whatever the nighttime mode is, or the yellow light or whatever.

[00:31:25] Yeah. The orange tent. So I do that. I try really hard personally, like at nighttime too, you know not be on my phone, which I could get better at, but I try to not be on my phone.

[00:31:41]And so, but yeah, I don't, I try not to watch, you know, TV right before bed. I try to be mindful of, you know, that type of exposure. Cause obviously there's data there too that says, you know, you gotta be careful. 

[00:31:52] Erich Wenzel: So it's definitely an uphill battle. Cause I was for a long, long time. I was so. Again, learn behavior. My mom listens to the TV or she has the TV on as she sleeps and she has it on like really low volume. So it's not even watching TV, but that's the only way she can sleep. And so, so when I was little, I got used to that same thing. And over time, like last year, I kind of slowly weaned myself from doing that cause I bought, I don't know if you were seeing them, but like a wake up light it's called.

[00:32:21] So it's basically. 

[00:32:22] Claudia Skowron:  It mimics the sunrise chirping birds are awesome. 

[00:32:26] Erich Wenzel: I love that. It's so good. It really does help reset your circadian rhythm. So what I do is I turn it on and you can set a timer so it goes down like we're setting up a sun. and so I set it for like a 30 minute timer.

[00:32:40] And in that 30 minute timer in bed, I'm reading a book. And then like 15 minutes by 15 minutes or so, you can't really, it's too dark, so you can't read the page anymore. So then that's the time to finally like go to bed when then just let it naturally fade away and like go to sleep and then it does the reverse in the morning so it slowly wakes up and then by the time it's fully bright, then the birds chirp and then you're like off to the rest of your day.

[00:33:02] Claudia Skowron: super helpful like this time of year especially, 

[00:33:05] Erich Wenzel: It really does because it's just like. It just puts my brain and like my body in the sense of like, Oh, it's time to go to sleep now and it doesn't make me want to like watch TV. Like I unplugged my TV now because it's like those little LEDs in rooms and if you're in hotels, it's awful.

[00:33:20] I turned off everything or turned away all LEDs that were like. Shining all over the room if I could. 

[00:33:25] Claudia Skowron: There's research that shows that your body, even if it's a tiny little dim light, your body and your brain can pick up on that. It's crazy.

[00:33:31] Erich Wenzel: There was a research paper I read where they shined a laser like an infrared laser at the back of someone's knee in the dark dark room.

[00:33:37] And the brain, like the eyes still sensed it somehow. Like perfection, it's ridiculous. I'm like, what is this? What is your, you had mentioned when I'd mentioned the light therapy, you said in what way? So is there a way you use light therapy for you?

[00:33:50]Claudia Skowron: And, so I mean, in the clinical world we have light therapy that helps with seasonal affective disorder and the research on that is kind of mixed. So, you know, take what you will from it. The idea is, you know, you can buy a light that mimics. The sun, right and you can sit in front of it for 20, 30 minutes, and it helps your body really gain that vitamin D that's missing out on in the winter time.

[00:34:10]I've used it. I, you know, I don't think I used it long enough to have major effects, but you do feel kind of, I dunno, you do feel a little bit more awake after, and maybe it's cause there's a light literally shine on your face, but you see like a red or orange. 

[00:34:27] Erich Wenzel: Because I've seen red light ones where they put it in like your ears or I think it's your nose possible. I forget what it was. There's some sort of research that like in the ear canals are on the nose or I dunno. It was bizarre. Something about putting it on like wearing headphones. It's like a little headphones, but it just. Puts like, like orange light in your ears. It's supposed to, I don't know.

[00:34:44] Look into it again. Now that I still look into that too, that I don't know about.

[00:34:44] Claudia Skowron: But I do know no its regular light and you can put it right in front of your face. there's also goggles that you can put on, and again, the mimic the sunlight, and you just sit like that for, you know, 20, 30 minutes.

[00:34:57] And that's supposed to kind of help, again, reset circadian rhythms too. but it's supposed to help your body, you know, create more vitamin D, things like that. So, you know, it's a, it's a good additive. But you know, again, do what works for you.

[00:35:09]Erich Wenzel: Right? I mean, it really is. The huge thing is trying to just turn the knobs and figure out what works because there's so many variables at play.

[00:35:17] Unfortunately, the human system is not an easy thing to figure out as much as we would hope to do a double blind placebo and everything. It's just not possible. 

[00:35:29] Claudia Skowron: Of course, there's know different placebo effects that come in so. You know, I say, does it really matter if you're getting a result? Go with it.

[00:35:36] Fish Oil and D3

[00:35:36] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. I just recently started taking fish oil again and I found one that, it's like a certified sport version of it, but it also has like a vitamin D three in it, so it's like a thousand milligrams of DHA and EPA and it has the vitamin three. I initially just bought it because of the, I listened to a separate podcast, Peter Attia.

[00:35:53] He had, he had a doc who's like knows all about, Omega threes and Omega sixes. So he's like, that's his wheelhouse. He just knows all about that stuff. And he, they're just talking about all the hormone regulations and how that it, you know, traverses the blood brain barrier for hormone regulation.

[00:36:07] Claudia Skowron: It's supposed to help prevent concussions to kind of bring it back to that.

[00:36:11] Erich Wenzel: Really, I did not see, I didn't know that.

[00:36:15]Claudia Skowron: I don't want to say prevent them, but make you less susceptible to having post-concussive symptoms and things like that. So it's regulation basically. 

[00:36:22] Erich Wenzel: See again, well, all this stuff, I just keep thinking about it. I'm just like, man, I miss this. Missing the Mark.

[00:36:27] I guess the one thing I wasn't really taking, like I tried to just cover my bases and then I listened to the podcast and I was like, damn there. I'm like, I'm not like, and then I started taking it and not only it was like. I've been taking about a week now or two weeks, and it's like my energy levels, but just like totally stabilized just from this one simple additive thing.

[00:36:44] Self Experiments - Fasting, Sleep Tracking, and Habits

[00:36:44] And I do like fasting 14 hours a day now. So it's like I. It's like, I don't really need to do it, but it's like I just tried to find out this like sweet spot of like, how long can I go without eating and stuff like that. And it's been really helpful just to kind of understand what my physical limit is.

[00:36:58] Like when do I need to take calories in and stuff like that. 

[00:37:00] Claudia Skowron: Yeah. Well, again, there's a lot of research too that supports that or intermittent fasting, you know, I think, you know, obviously I have to be mindful of any medical condition you're struggling with, but you know, and I tend to feel a little bit better too.

[00:37:12] Sort of employing that. I'm not super diligent on it, but you know, I've noticed that I feel a little bit better too. 

[00:37:17] Erich Wenzel: So I just think it's worth mentioning. Cause like for me the biggest thing was like, Oh, I kind of get hungry at like nine o'clock at night, like close to bedtime. And then I would see it on my wearables that it's like, Hey.

[00:37:27] Your heart rate was elevated last night and it's like, did you eat something late? And I'm like, yes, I do. You know what? I'm like, crap. I need to like not be doing this to myself because I know it's going to affect my sleep. And so then that goes me. It puts me down the rabbit hole of like, how do I like limit myself from snacking, 

[00:37:43] Claudia Skowron: That's interesting all those, you know, body biometrics that we have with watches, with, you know, the ring that you have or whatever it may be.

[00:37:50] I think it's interesting because it does give you tremendous insight into what's going on with your own body, which can be really helpful. Right. If you're struggling with something. I think the other side of it is super interesting too, and that is, you know, I feel like some people would become so obsessed almost with knowing that information that they would almost put added pressure on themselves, right?

[00:38:11] Like I have to get a good night's sleep because last night I watched, told me I didn't get good States and I only bring that up because I know I would be that person for sure. You know, if my watch is telling me, Hey, you had really broken sleep and you got five hours, they're like, Oh God, all right, tonight.

[00:38:23] Here we go seven hours. Right. And it was, yeah. Paradoxically for me.

[00:38:26] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, I do think there is this weird paradigm of like, some people, it doesn't matter. Like I think of myself as like an engineer where, you know, I love more data and like trying to like peer inside the crystal ball, so to speak. I think I can do that.

[00:38:41] And I do I understand that not everybody's going to be able to wear these devices. I do think they have value for anybody, everybody if they want to, but what I do think is the reason I wear both of them, and I've, and I really go deep on this stuff, is that. If I'm wearing it for long enough or I can start teasing out things that seem to work for me and kind of get general frameworks.

[00:39:06] Claudia Skowron: Completely appropriate way to do it.

[00:39:09] Erich Wenzel: And you'll have a better quality sleep, or you'll have a.

[00:39:12] Whatever, you know, whatever it is that you're looking for. And so I, so someone doesn't have to do the legwork and try to figure it out and add that extra stress element to their life. Cause I think there will be people that take it too far. I do hope too, that one day, like doctors could prescribe these things for like I'm going to prescribe sleep tracking.

[00:39:30] Instead of prescribing like a sleep pill first, it's prescribed sleep tracking for three months and then like, Oh Hey look, you're like REM and deep sleep are completely fragmented. What are you doing at night? Like are you eating like a big glucose meal or are you not having enough glucose?

[00:39:50] Cause I've heard like people who like to crash their glucose midnight, like at the middle of the day, they wound up. There it goes spikes too low and it makes it unrestful. And so they're like, insulin kicks in and they get like, yeah. So it's counterintuitive to some degree or another. And then they have to like to do some diagnostics.

[00:40:04] Claudia Skowron: It would be really interesting to incorporate into the therapy world. You know, I have so many patients that struggle with sleep. I mean, that's, I mean, insomnia, it's huge. And so that would be a really cool additive.

[00:40:14] Wearables and Stress Measurement

[00:40:14] Erich Wenzel: For me the big thing, like I said, I just finished school in may. And then so as I was training over the summer, like, because all that school stuff just went, Nope, I'm done.

[00:40:23] Like I didn't have to think about it anymore. I didn't have to worry about next semester. Right? So there's this huge stressor element that's invisible for the most part. It's just an assumed constant, right? Three months later, I had started working out like heavily again, and I was like running crazy, like five miles a day or something insane.

[00:40:39] Like, cause my recovery was off the charts and I was just like, cool, this is awesome. I'm just gonna keep doing it. And then I like was able to track my data back like three to six months and all of a sudden I could almost look to the day that I finished school. My trends for HRV and resting heart rate went in positive dimensions.

[00:40:58] And it was just like, Oh my God, here's this thing that I was doing fine in school. Like it wasn't a big deal. Like I was just, well, this is what I put signed up for. I'm going to just, you know, make it work. 

[00:41:08] Claudia Skowron: But it's kind of cool to see just how much of an effect it did have on you. 

[00:41:11] Erich Wenzel: It's crazy. I was like, what? I'm like, this is insanity, you know?

[00:41:14] Claudia Skowron: And I think that kind of begs the conversation of we almost get used to stress, or we get used to that feeling. We almost don't know how well we can really function. And design our days when we take care of that piece. You know? And that's not me saying don't go to school, obviously do it. But you know, figure out a way to manage stress levels. 

[00:41:30] Erich Wenzel: It's just an understanding like, you know, what is your stress threshold? While I was cut by those two words. So that's an interesting tongue twist. But yeah, that was like one of the big things that I was able to find out. Cause it's just like HRV, you don't like, it stands for heart rate variability for those of you who don't know.

[00:41:47] But that's just like a window into your parasympathetic . Parasympathetic nervous system like activation level, the lower that number is, whatever it is for you is more activated and as stressed out. 

[00:41:55] Claudia Skowron: That’s a  common intervention we use. 

[00:41:57] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, it's, I just think it's such the, that is the whole reason I bought these things because it lets you measure these things and I'm just like, Oh my God.

[00:42:04] Like how do I, how do I like to improve this number? Or like just understand what's going on day to day and then it's put me down the rabbit hole of like yoga and sensory deprivation and stuff like that. Just to kind of. Chill myself out more, which is just crazy to even go down that rabbit hole and to see how it affects like, cause you basically have like a one day lag, you do anything and then the next day you get to see what the numbers look like and be like, okay, cool.

[00:42:27] There's like, you know, experiments in real time. It's been a lot of fun to kind of do that stuff. 

[00:42:34] Neurofeedback

[00:42:34] Claudia Skowron: And you would really like neural feedback. 

[00:42:38] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. I'm not surprised, honestly. It's definitely one of those things. I'm just like, okay, how does the brain, you know, do what it does, like flow States and like understanding how to be. Like present basically is like how do you tap into the present moment and just be there. 

[00:42:56] Claudia Skowron: Yeah. You know, and I know you want to talk about neurofeedback and I do too, and maybe I can give like a really quick summary on it and we'll kind of go into it more later. 

[00:43:03] Erich Wenzel: We'll put a pin in it and then we'll really expand on it and get in the weeds to kind of give it's due diligence. 

[00:43:11] Claudia Skowron: Yes, absolutely. but in essence, you know, you know, feedback is really kind of figuring out, what brainwaves you have and what part of your brain, and if you have the most appropriate, most functional brain waves in each part of the brain, that's kind of what you want. And when you have.

[00:43:27] I don't want to say the wrong brainwave, but, the, the least conducive type of brainwave in a certain part of the brain that's going to manifest as anxiety, as depression, as impulsivity, ADHD, whatever. and so the goal of neurofeedback is to train your brain the appropriate part of your brain. That's malfunctioning, if you will, to have the appropriate brain waves so that you get symptom reduction. It's very cool stuff.

[00:43:48]Erich Wenzel: Wow. So this is neurofeedback a relatively new domain?

[00:43:52] Claudia Skowron:  It's newer, well in the grand scheme of psychology, yeah. I think they first started doing very basic neurofeedback in the 80s, which again, in the grand scheme is still super new. Yeah. and over the last, I want to say 10, 15 years, it's really, really growing.

[00:44:07]We started with super basic neurofeedback interventions and now we have like 19 lead EEGs QEEGs. Super duper impressive, so I can't wait to talk about it and then we will, you know, later at some point. That's super cool stuff. Yeah, look it up. If you don't know it is totally worth it. 

[00:44:22] Erich Wenzel:  I'll definitely have a link in there with some like Wikipedia articles and stuff I can find for people who really want to get into the weeds of it now, but we'll definitely have like a more concise version to kind of paint the broader brush of what this is later on. That's really cool cause I think that's super important.  It reminds me if I were to draw an analogy, it's like a paint mixture, but in your brain, like if you had, you know, you have a certain color of that you're trying to go for, but you have to adjust the, the mixture and that just the different brain waves that you going on.

[00:44:49] Claudia Skowron:  Yup. You know, and our, our brains learn. And for whatever reason, you know, your brain decides that we're going to put beta in your frontal cortex, which is probably not the most efficient. You're going to have a lot of anxiety. And so the goal is cool. If I got beta, let me down trains to alpha and we have ways to do that now, which is awesome.

[00:45:03] Erich Wenzel: That's neat. I kind of dabbled in like binaural beats if you've heard of them and things like that, use them to relax or focus here and there. Music is a weird thing because it does have some unique properties to kind of snap you in a certain state like that. So. That's it. That's what I thought about when, yeah.

[00:45:19] Claudia Skowron: And that actually links to neurofeedback because binaural beats, the goal is, I'm depending on, you know, what tone or Hertz or frequency or listening to that will elicit theta waves or Delta waves, which are very slow, deep waves in the brain, which you want that if you want to fall asleep. So that's, you know, like a skeleton model of neurofeedback.

[00:45:38] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. Cool. Yeah, that's awesome. I think that paints the picture there for people to kind of. You know, have enough to go off of for now. You know what their appetite is, I guess. Any other cool things you've been working with are exploring within the psychology space?

[00:45:52] A Different View on Positivity

[00:45:52]Claudia Skowron: Yeah, this, I mean, this was the year of neurofeedback for sure.

[00:45:55] I've worked a lot this year and I know you mentioned it earlier, this idea of, positivity and how, positivity is obviously a great thing. I was going to bash that, but there is such a thing as too much. and so, you know, the trend that I've noticed a lot in the last like year or two, especially with social media, if we bring it back to that, is, you know, everyone's trying to be happy and positive all the time.

[00:46:16] You know, all these positive messages, you know, positive quotes. You know, this is my travel story that I'm doing this, which is. Great stuff. The problem with it is there is such a thing as too much, and so, you know, it makes people feel like they can never have that. Right. It's this unrealistic, very idealistic level of positivity and happiness.

[00:46:35]And so, you know. The, the take home message here is that there is such a thing as too much, and I think we have to be very mindful of, have I crossed over into too much positivity, which is now actually inversely gonna cause low mood, depression, anxiety, that kind of a thing. so I think the goal is, you know, we want to feed into positivity for sure, but we want to leave room for unpleasant emotions too.

[00:46:56] You know, that's part of the human experience. We have. Anxiety. We have frustration, we have sadness, right? We can't pretend like that stuff doesn't exist. We can't dismiss it. We can't turn our head to it because it's there. and for people that do that, that'll rebound, you know, and then I'll get you twice as bad later.

[00:47:10] So we have to kind of create room for both, you know, feel the unpleasant stuff, feed into the positive stuff. 

[00:47:16] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, like come to terms with it. Don't turn a blind eye. I really do think that's important to say because it's so easy to look on social media and have all these fluffy, like there's so many seems crazy in the last like six months. All these different quote places that just have all these, like it's so easy to just copy and paste a quote and pretty background on it. 

[00:47:34] Claudia Skowron: That drives me crazy. It's Great. You know, positive things. Yay. Wonderful, beautiful. You know, the other side of it too, let's, let's be real.

[00:47:43] Right? And that's really what I try and do with my page, you know, for kind of linking, you know, our entire conversation back. You know, I travel, I travel, I show all my travel stuff. I have a lot of positive things, but I'm also going to talk about the struggles cause this is real life. 

[00:47:56] Erich Wenzel: I mean, you're going to, you're not going to go through life without any bruises. Right. Or scrapes and bruises at that. Like you gotta, you know, be able to take the hits and roads and bumps of life like that. That's kind of where I take optimism. It's more of like, it's understanding that you're going to hit speed bumps along the way. Right. And to know that right now, however bad it feels it's done.

[00:48:18] Turn at some point, and it doesn't mean do you know what it's going to turn, but it's just going to get better to some degree. And that's as far as you can take it. You know, it's very stoic of me to say it that way because that's kind of where I kind of go with it. 

[00:48:31] Claudia Skowron: But it's true. You know, nothing ever, nothing ever lasts.

[00:48:35] The good doesn't last indefinitely. The bad doesn't last indefinitely. Things are constantly changing. So, and I think that's, you know, you could look at that with a lot of fear and anxiety, like, Oh my God, things are constantly changing. Or it's. Pretty exciting. You know, the good moments. Stay there, be in the good moment, you know?

[00:48:50] Soak it up, be mindful, right. The bad stuff, you know, this will pass too. And again, not in a cheesy quote kind of way, but in a very honest, realistic, genuine kind of way.

[00:49:00]Erich Wenzel: Yeah. That's totally worth saying because it's so easy to just to get kind of look at something and be like, Oh, why don't I feel like, you know, Rose colored glasses, skipping through the bed of roses or whatever all the time.

[00:49:11] And that's just not the reality of life. Even though you get fired up about something, or you can really love your job Monday morning, still Monday morning sometimes, right? Or it was like 2:00 PM is still 2:00 PM you're like, I wish I could leave. 

[00:49:22] Claudia Skowron: You almost have a fear of talking about it because I feel all this pressure just have to be happy and bubbly all the time, you know? And Yeah. No.

[00:49:34] Motivation is the Easy Part

[00:49:34] Erich Wenzel: I think it's even funnier people are like, how do you go to the gym all the time? I'm like, do you think I like want to like, I'm 100% fired up. I'll go into the gym sometimes. I'm like, no, like 60% of the time I'm like looking at the clock. I'm like, I should've really been at the gym by now.

[00:49:47] You know? And I still look at the clock. I'm like, I'm still sitting in his chair and have it moved. And then you finally make yourself go and you're like, thank God I finally went, because now that I'm here, I'm kind of, I feel better like that. I'm moving even though I didn't feel like it, not like I felt like not going.

[00:50:01] Yeah. You know, it's like putting those systems in place. At least this isn't for me, like the psychological frameworking of it. It's like when it's easy to be motivated, like that's what all of those quotes are about is like just getting people fired up and motivated about something like right now. But the idea for me is like, okay, you'll only be motivated for, I don't know, a month.

[00:50:20] Maybe if that, and then you really got to do the due diligence to put things in place that allow you to get the cognitive resistance out of the way. To do the things that are going to make you feel better, even though in the short term, realistically, you know the eating healthy, the going into the gym, like even if it's, if you don't have to be training for a marathon, like just go for 15 minutes, you know.

[00:50:43] Jump up jump rope or something. Just do something easy or do a 15 minute workout, right? Your first wake up. Like do some like 10 pushups and sit ups or whatever. Like you don't need to get fancy with it. You don't need to be like lifting triple digit weights or whatever. I just think it's so easy for people to get like, Oh, they put a label on things.

[00:51:01] Then they say, Oh, I can't do that, or I'm not that. It's not about that. 

[00:51:05] Claudia Skowron: It's just like staying in your lane, sticking to your situation. Exactly. 

[00:51:08] Erich Wenzel: Again, you're really good at going back to you. You've mentioned traveling the whole bunch so far, so if you want to give some highlights of the trip, that'd be awesome.

[00:51:19] Travel - Costa Rica and Iceland

[00:51:19] Claudia Skowron: Yeah. So, well, this year I'm given, obviously the health stuff that creeped up. I did a little bit less of that. but I did go to Costa Rica this year, for the second time. That was awesome. I went for a surf trip for my birthday, which was incredible. and that was like right in the middle of the health stuff.

[00:51:36] So I was actually doing good at that point. and then, I had a couple of smaller trips, just around the States. But most recently I went to Iceland, which was the coolest. Ever. It is amazing. It is so much, I mean, it's one of those places that you see in a photo, right? You're like, wow, this is really pretty, Oh my God, go there.

[00:51:58] Cause it is 10 times more beautiful. You know, a photo will never capture it. But that was interesting there because we, you know. I wasn't feeling super good. And so I had to kind of figure out a way to, you know, I'm here. We have a limited amount of time. I want to see everything. I want to hike, I want to do all the cool things and travel and see the waterfalls, yada, yada, yada.

[00:52:16] But how do I manage that and not feel super well at the same time? so I really kind of figured out, you know, how do you work with your body? and that type of a situation. For me, it was a lot of rest, you know, we'd be driving and I'm like laying there napping, 

[00:52:29] Erich Wenzel: Just trying to recover as much  as you can between things 

[00:52:31] Claudia Skowron: Yeah. But, you know, travel is still something very near and dear to me, and I will promote that literally forever and ever and ever, you know, for, for those of us that can, you know, I know sometimes we just don't have the means to, but, if you do, you mean go travel? It gives you a beautiful perspective in this world.

[00:52:47] You know, it humbles you and you figure yourself out. Right. And it's just. It's such a unique and beautiful experience. This world is so big, you know? And we live in this little tiny bubble. So get out there, go see what's out there. You'll learn about yourself. You'll learn about this world. You know when you'll come home with just knowledge, experiences and perspective.

[00:53:06] World Citizens

[00:53:06] Erich Wenzel: It's something I think about a lot lately. Podcasts where the doorway into like world, like the world citizen, I guess in some ways, like you get to hear perspectives from all over the world or people who do of things and you kind of like, wow, that's really cool. Like I was listening to a podcast and the guy had his, he grew up in, his dad was an international banker.

[00:53:25] So basically it is like every couple of years or so. He was just living in a new city, I guess. He grew up, you know, going to elementary schools, like all over the world. And he knows, right. It's weird, it's a weird thing. But then also you feel like a nomad because then you come home to the States where you're technically, you know, are supposed to be a citizen of, but you're, you're not.

[00:53:44] And you, you know, you're really a world citizen. And I'm just like, Whoa. You know, cause you come here in the mid Midwest. It's like we have these super deep roots as like a family. And like my family, like my parents, they don't travel at all. And they, they basically, their family came over here. Like us, my parents joke, my mom's side of the family's Polish and we did the, ancestry. And my dad jokes around, it's like your family coming over here. It was the farthest. They moved away in 200 years as a joke, but it's so true. My parents are, my mom's side of his, her family came over here and they lived in like Southwestern Poland. Like for the last forever basically.

[00:54:22] And so it's just like this thing.

[00:54:26] And so it's just like this crazy thing. And I just kind of, now that I've gotten into this stuff, it's just like being able to see the world and like experience the places and things and be like, 

[00:54:35] Claudia Skowron: But to your point, I mean, you bring up a really interesting perspective. And that is, you know, sometimes we just don't have the means to get up and go.

[00:54:41] I mean, obviously. Stuff takes money, it takes time. It takes planning, it takes everything, and so if we can't physically get up and leave and go somewhere, there's other ways to do that, whether that's through podcasts or talking to different people or documentaries or reading or whatever.

[00:54:55] Erich Wenzel: I think reading is a huge thing for that because it lets you transport yourself into someone else's story.

[00:54:59] Like one of the cool things, and this is totally nerdy, but when you see an I in like when you read I in a book. You are inadvertently becoming the person. So you're living through their experiences without really meaning it because you know you're not, but you are to some degree or another. And so it's this fun little thing you can do to kind of trick people into like visualization and things like that when you use the personal pronouns and things like that.

[00:55:23] It's really fascinating. And I think it is one of those things also, For those of you out there as like biographies, like autobiographies. I don't know if you've heard of Trevor Noah born a crime. He was a South African, he's a South African comedian, but he, he came to the States now and he does like a, like a political talk show.

[00:55:37] Now, I forget which one, but he has a biography, an autobiography he did called. Born a Crime and his stories from a South African childhood and the audiobook he narrates the whole thing and then he does the accent of his mother in South African accents and people in the story. So it really adds all these layers and textures to the story of like, Oh, here's this kid who grew up in South Africa with the apartheid as it ended, and then dealt with all the cultural stigma as it kind of shifted and stuff.

[00:56:03] But then because he was half white still because he had the Dutch African as his father and his father was from Europe still. So he, like in his father, was like super progressive, but even still like he couldn't be seen with his own dad because of the stigmas at the time. And so like it was just like, this is such a crazy story to write 

[00:56:21] Claudia Skowron: And reading kind of gives you that perspective on, you know, maybe I won't have the opportunity to meet this person again, won't have the opportunity to go there and kind of go through all this stuff through this book, through this autobiography. I can, I can get that feel 

[00:56:33] Erich Wenzel: You just get a lens into, into someone else's world and how they grew up and experienced the world. And it's like, Oh my God. Like my favorite thing to talk about that stuff is cultural chameleon. Because he is a South African mixed, he's able to blend himself, you know, and not be a part of one just one culture, but all cultures within something crazy like South Africa.

[00:56:52] Because South Africa is such an interesting place. But like, I don't know, you can, you can extrapolate that to something like here where you know, you have so many different cultures in the United States and how those different cultures mix and blend and how you have to talk about. Different people's needs and cultural upbringings and stuff like that.

[00:57:08] Travel Logistics 

[00:57:08] I don't know. It just, it just helps you to bring compassion and, and see the world in a different way. Yeah. So for the travel part of it, like what does it like logistically working out for you? Like do you try to plan like super far in advance or, I'm just curious. There's so many different ways. Like some people are like, I just take red eyes and like, I've heard people do that and you know.

[00:57:29] Claudia Skowron: Oh boy. I know someone listening right now. It's going to laugh!

[00:57:33]So anyway, sorry. Sometimes yeah, sometimes I'll plan a trip. like a couple, I don't know, like a couple months out, like Iceland. That was a birthday trip. so, I plan what I think in October. While I booked the flight in October. and that we kind of figured out accommodations maybe a couple of weeks before.

[00:57:49]I mean, I've had other trips that literally they're booked. We don't know where we're staying. We're just going to go there and then we're going to figure out an Airbnb or we're going to figure out a hotel. So I've had that. you know, and then I've had very structured, very planned out trips. I impulsively booked a trip to Colorado in February, like a couple of weeks.

[00:58:10] I've been literally all over the page with it. I mean, obviously some of the bigger stuff I would say maybe plan it or at least have like some type of agenda or itinerary, but you know what? I dunno. Sometimes it's kind of fun to just show up and do whatever. So I think travel is super personal and you just kind of have to figure out, you know, what you want from the experience.

[00:58:28] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. I just, the reason I brought it up is because I think for most people, like myself included, the hardest part is just pulling the trigger. Cause it's always like, Oh, after this next thing, or when I have this amount of money.

[00:58:39] Claudia Skowron: There's always that thing, there's always there always going to be busy, right?

[00:58:43] There's always going to be something always. Money for the majority of us, that's always going to be, you know, a very Valiant and realistic excuse that we can use. But money, you know, that's, that's always a thing. There's ways to travel that you don't have to spend, you know, ridiculous amounts of money.

[00:58:57] I've had vacations that have been really lavish and beautiful and nice. I've had other ones that I'm literally saying, you know, bare minimum and they're great. Right? So it just, it depends. But, You know, and there's ways to book flights that are cheaper too. You know, you're seeing, you know, you book on Tuesdays and then they use it.

[00:59:14] You know, they're sort of tips and tricks like that. But yeah. you know, I say, I say do it, you know, don't be reckless with it. Don't be impulsive with it. But if that's something that, you know, it's like, I really want this, go do it. The money will always come back to you in some way. Like, if you work hard, the money will always come back.

[00:59:31] There's always going to be that next thing, but your time will not come back to you. Right.

[00:59:35] Currency of Time

[00:59:35] Erich Wenzel: Go ahead and elaborate on that. As much as you want this, this, the, you know, the currency of time.

[00:59:40]Claudia Skowron: It's true, right? Your time will come back to you and you know, again, that's scary. Or that's, you know, kind of like giving us a sense of urgency of, listen, I, I'm this old right now and I wanted to see some things, so I'm not going to be this old next year, so let me, let me do something with the time I have.

[00:59:55] Erich Wenzel: I think that's really a paradigm shift from like our parents age and stuff like that where it's like, Oh yeah, you'll work 30 years and then you'll retire, and then you have the time to go travel and do things. But I think nowadays it's really more of like, how do you, you know, do as much as you can while you still can and as across the board because you just know that you're going to still be like, there's always going to be work to do.

[01:00:15] Claudia Skowron: You have to know your values, I think, right? Yeah. you know, do you value stability? Do you value finance? Do you value money? Okay, cool. Well then maybe you do need to work right now and that's okay. Do you value experience? Do you value perspective taking, you know, what are your values? And you need to live as best as you can in accordance with your values.

[01:00:32] You know, one of my values in life for sure is adventure. You know, adventure and, and, and gaining knowledge and not through a book, but your life experiences. And so that's something that, you know, God willing and my body willing and my health willing, I'm going to keep doing it. And through your own perseverance.

[01:00:52] Erich Wenzel: It's really cool. I just love being able to talk about travel. It's one of those things like again, go into the optimism stuff. It's like such an idealized thing, but it's also one of those things that everyone gets a little cold feet about it and a little scared and apprehensive because they say, I wish I could go to that, or it's like on my bucket list, stuff like that, but it's like.

[01:01:11] There's a point where you have to pull it off the bucket lifts and actually put it on the calendar. Otherwise you'll never do it.

[01:01:15] Claudia Skowron: Right. Very few people when they hit that bucket list item, go back and say, you know what? I wish I didn't do this. Very, very few, if ever. Right. You don't do that. You say, God, I wish I would've done it sooner.

[01:01:27] Being Open to Experience

[01:01:27] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. Absolutely. This is one of those things, like it was like yoga this year for me. It was like, I'd never thought I'd be one in yoga for one thing, you know? And then all of a sudden I started doing it. I'm like, here it is. Like this thing and it's like at once, you know, movement and getting the body and being able to do all the things, especially with running so much in the summer.

[01:01:45] I noticed how tight, my hips and like quads were, and like whatnot from doing all that stuff and just like, this is insane. And then I'm like, in yoga and I'm like, Oh, here's like how to do it. And you know, it just adds so much more to it. And then it winds up becoming like a meditation because of the classes I'm taking.

[01:02:00] So that it allows you to chill out and you just find that 

[01:02:03] Claudia Skowron: Open to experience. That's what it is, is, you know, we. We tend to have our own biases or we like to pretend like we know that something's not going to work or we know we're not going to like it, but be open to everything. You can't say you don't like something if you've never done it ever.

[01:02:17] Erich Wenzel: How would you like, how would you like provide a guide to someone who's like, I want to get into something, but I don't know how to, like if they're trying to do something new or break into something, like, is there like a tip you would give someone?

[01:02:29] Claudia Skowron: I think research is always good, right? If I don't know about something, well let me, let me read up on it, right?

[01:02:34] Let me follow pages that do that thing. Let me get some knowledge right. And you know, whatever it is, if it's a different sport, I don't know. Right. Let me kind of figure out people or influencers that are in that sport. Let me read up on the craft of the sport and then let me kind of figure out an area by me that's offering this thing.

[01:02:52] But do it by all means, go do it. And then if you hate it, fine. Don't ever go back. 

[01:02:57] Erich Wenzel: Just try first and then go. I mean, that's how I got into working on myself. It just became an information sponge. That's what I call it, and just absorb as much information I could on it. And then I just started applying as much as I could when I would go to the gym. Even though he wasn't getting personal training or anything like that and just tried to do it, and all of a sudden it's like, Oh, Hey, look at how it opens doors for you. Like, here's this thing that you had a fixed mindset about and said, Oh, I can't be that.

[01:03:22] And then all of a sudden you like threw away a key for something that. You didn't even like to peek through the doorway first.

[01:03:29]Claudia Skowron: We are capable of so much more than we give ourselves credit for. You know, the human mind and the human body is capable of literally tremendous, tremendous things, you know?

[01:03:37] And so, yeah, try it all. You know? And if you hate it, don't ever go back. But even even in that type of a situation, you can learn so much about yourself. You know? Why did I not like this? What is it about it? Well, that's growth too. 

[01:03:48] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. I think that, yeah, just being to have a little bit like introspection and reflection on things.

[01:03:53] They're like, okay, now that I know I didn't like that, like can you say why you didn't like it at the very least? And then you could say like, well, if I know, if I didn't like it this way, then I can tell someone else. He's like, well, you might like it because I didn't like it because of this reason. I think that's more fun to do too.

[01:04:08] Gifting Books and Experiences

[01:04:08] It's been one of the fun things I do for Christmas right now. It's like I buy books for people instead of buying things. So I buy everybody a book that is for my closest friends and I try to find something that pertains to their specific interests. And so it's like, okay, how do I facilitate growth for those around me?

[01:04:25] And like, you know, scratch their own itch because it's an investment into them because they have to put some time into the book. And even if they don't finish the book or even pick up the book, it's still something that. They may get value of total out of, at the very least. 

[01:04:38] Claudia Skowron: I love that, and I love giving people like experience gifts, right?

[01:04:41] I'm not going to give you some type of a tangential gift or or a thing. I'm going to give you an experience, right? And that way you've got no excuse. You didn't pay for it. You just go to it. 

[01:04:50] Erich Wenzel: You just got to show up. I like that idea too, just showing up. That's one of the cool things about going to yoga class for me is like it takes away the thinking of like.

[01:04:58] How do I like, what do I want to work out today? It's like, Nope, you're just showing up for the class to think what do you have to do? Is this already taken care of for you? And that makes it a lot more fun to kind of just check out and like be in the moment more. For sure. Cool. So any other, because we're already over an hour, I cannot believe it.

[01:05:19] Any other things about 2019 or just other things you have on your mind that you want to just share with us?

[01:05:27] Claudia Skowron: I think 2019 you know, to kind of summarize everything we've talked about, you know, 2019 for me is more of just the power of the human mind, and that is, you know, the human mind, what it is capable of.

[01:05:41] There is no machine that even comes from what we are close to what the human brain and the human mind is capable of. And you know, if you train it right, you are capable of just some amazing, extraordinary things. But if you let it take over you and you feed into, you know, some maladaptive stuff, it's going to take you, you know?

[01:05:59] And that's actually a really cool thing because it's trainable. It's, you know, it's flexible. So, you know, I encourage everyone, train your brain, train it, you know, put yourself out there, but you know what you have literally underneath your skull is the most powerful thing that exists. So do something with it.

[01:06:16] What are You Excited about for 2020

[01:06:16] Erich Wenzel: Awesome. That's really cool. And then, for 2020, what are you excited about? Or like, what are you excited to bring into 2020? 

[01:06:25] Claudia Skowron: You know, I think, again, more personal growth and I think for me that's going to be, with my career. I'm going to try and make some growth steps in my career, and advance myself a little bit more just with my interventions that I'm using and really try to incorporate your own feedback.

[01:06:40]I think that's really big for me. You know? And I think, I think too, taking on experiences that, you know, how do I say this? I don't know. Maybe I would initially knee jerk reaction, you know, kind of have those biases of being, I know this isn't going to work, or networking with this person isn't gonna really do it for me.

[01:06:57] But I think, you know, even in even further, so opening up my frame of lens to and kind of taking on, you know, whatever opportunities. Life gives me, you know what I think too, if I can give back and you know, if someone can listen to this podcast or if someone is influenced by my Hashimoto's struggles in a positive way, infused me as a model.

[01:07:17] I mean, that, that's the ultimate cherry on top is this is my story and I shared it and, you know, hopefully someone got something positive out of it or was motivated or inspired and at the end of the day, even if it's just one person. That's enough. 

[01:07:31] Erich Wenzel: It makes it all worth it, you know? I mean, there's not many places or things where one, we can talk long form about, you know, what it is that we do and be able to share it unapologetically.

[01:07:41] Cause there's so many people that don't want to share because it's like I'll be judged or whatever it is. And I just think when we share what we've gone through, like it's through those, the precarious, precarious moments in life that, you know, things are not as nice as we would hope they would be, is where we learned the most.

[01:08:00] And when we can go back, say, Hey, this is how I got through those experiences, and like maybe someone else can learn from it, you know, if you parse it down and say, here's the thematic thing, it applies a lot more broadly than we ever would have thought, you know? And it's awesome. I understand you appreciate you taking the time to, to talk through all the things that you're doing and just, you know, helping people. At the very least, it's really cool.

[01:08:23] Claudia Skowron: Helping people in a different kind of way this year, not just through my work, but through my personal stuff, which like you said, is, it's scary. It's vulnerable, but you put yourself out there and I think the right people will come into your life and will support you and the wrong people will weed themselves out. And that's a good thing. 

[01:08:39] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. I mean, it is. Never more true to have the know what people stand for in your life, to be able to know which ones you can lean on. And you know, relationships are one of those things that a lot of people are sort of cynical about in this day and age. But also, I think it's one of the things that we need to start fostering a lot more and creating those communities and networks in a different way. And that'll be a different conversation for another time. We'll definitely be talking more. 

[01:09:06] Claudia Skowron: Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me again! 

Health, Travel, PsychologyErich WenzelClaudia Skowron, TEDx Speaker, Mindfulness, Hashimoto's, Food is medicine, Separate Acceptance from Change, Being Transparent, Fish Oil, Active Consumer, Self Experiment, Wearable Whoop and Oura ring, Positivity, Travel, World Citizen, Gifting Experiences, Peter Attia, Books, Reading, Trevor Noah, Fasting, Health, Mental Health, Helping OthersComment