Dan Clark: Focus, Leadership and Growth
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Dan Clark is a serial entrepreneur, traveler, and the CEO of Brain.fm, an innovative technology company that helps users be more productive through the use of functional music created by composers and artificial intelligence.
Daniel has been in love with technology- and its potential to positively impact the world- for as long as he can remember. From building websites when he was 13, starting a design and advertising business at 18, and driving millions in revenue for multinational brands as a director for a boutique ad agency, he has truly been at the forefront of how technology can exponentially grow successful businesses.
One of Brain.fm's first users, he called the company 12 times before they agreed to bring him in for an interview. When he did receive an offer, he jumped at it (even working for free for the first few weeks). He eventually moved up to Head of Technology and is now the CEO. As CEO, Daniel is constantly striving to build a company that can not only change the world through music but also is one of the best companies for people to work for and grow with.
Explore the science of Brain.fm:
Show Notes:
[00:05:52] What is Brain.fm?
[00:07:38] How did Dan discover the power of music?
[00:10:00] What is happening in the brain when listening to music?
[00:11:56] What binaural beats and misconceptions?
Binaural Beats | Psychology Today
[00:15:30] Other use cases for Brain.fm
[00:18:09] Music and Recovery
[00:20:43] Where did the foundation of science come from
[00:23:51] A perfect storm of technology to make this possible
[00:25:13] Where does AI play a role?
[00:26:43] What was it like for Dan to stumble into this?
[00:31:03] Circadian Rhythm and Sleep Routines
Circadian Rhythm | Psychology Today
What is Circadian Rhythm? | Improve Sleep with Consistency
[00:33:13] Making technology in service of the user
[00:34:53] Pattern interrupts to get focused
[00:37:33] The Power of Travel
[00:40:33] How has Dan been challenging himself in 2020?
[00:41:53] Leadership and Trust
[00:44:36] Connection and Communication
[00:47:02] Growth and how to foster it
The Slight Edge by Jeff Olson and John David Mann
Atomic Habits by James Clear
[00:51:05] Anchor to the process
[00:52:56] Recommended Books
Atomic Habits by James Clear
Relentless by Tim Grover
[00:54:38] The power of sport
[00:56:09] Advice on jump starting into new a direction
[00:58:36] Control what you can
Recent podcasts you might enjoy:
Recent blogs you might enjoy:
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Dan Clark: Focus, Leadership and Growth
[00:05:38] Erich Wenzel: Hello everyone. And welcome back to another episode of feeding curiosity and today's episode. We're joined by CEO of brain FM, Dan Clark.
[00:05:49] Dan Clark: Hey, how's it going?
[00:05:50] Erich Wenzel: Good. How are you?
[00:05:52] What is Brain.fm?
[00:05:52] Dan Clark: I'm doing great, as, as great as we can be in these crazy times that we're all in right now.
[00:05:57] Erich Wenzel: I think honestly, one of the best places to start is just to kind of elaborate what brain FM is because given the scenario where a lot of us are doing a lot of the same repetitive things at home, or just stuck in the same environment, having something like brain FM, which is music that can help us either focus or commerce I was down, I think is really important.
[00:06:17] Dan Clark: Yeah, of course. So brain.fm creates functional music to help you focus, relax, and sleep better on demand. basically we are, creating music from the ground up to be functional by adding in different kinds of patterns and modulations. That we've been able to discover and patent with science and scientific testing to basically speed up the change of mental States.
[00:06:41] So being able to lock into focus or specifically a modality of focus, like the Bork or creativity, or relaxing, more sleeping.
[00:06:51] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, it's really cool for me because one of the things that I've done in my own research kind of finding brain FM by accident was going down the rabbit hole of music. Because for one thing that I've always done, not only in podcasting, but I just love the format of audio.
[00:07:05] There's something about audio for me that I can focus better, be it podcasting or music, or like I can throw on like a chill beat of some sort and just. Use that as a way to drown out background noise, and then I can do whatever I'm trying to focus on before I understand that there was science behind rhythms and different frequency tones and things like that.
[00:07:25]so could you elaborate on, like, how did you discover that there was this secret power to music, I guess I just told because it's intuitive to most of us, that music, just something
[00:07:38] How did Dan discover the power of music?
[00:07:38] Dan Clark: yeah, happy to dive in. So, you know, I think I have a very unique story where I actually didn't create brain FM. I was one of the first users instead.
[00:07:47] I came into it, I remember trying it for the first time and taking off my headphones and being like. Holy. Wow, this is crazy. and then I dove into science, it's myself. you know, really wanted to do it, to like figure out why it was working or if it was like this placebo effect, you know, that could be, and my background is really, I've done every kind of nootropic, any kind of diet, all these different kinds of things to help me, work and focus because I used to be a developer and I used to work from 10:00 PM to 4:00 AM.
[00:08:17] Pretty much every night. Cause I could find my flow state faster and do more work. So I just kind of always did that. and then came across brain FM. And again, that I just saw what this is capable of. So, you know, that's kinda how I came into the program. I think it's important to note that actually brain FM.
[00:08:35]so I guess first off is I was super skeptical using it the first time. because it sounds so obvious, like obviously music can help us, you know, focus, relax asleep. but really what sets the brain, if I'm apart is actually we have all this brand new technology. So this has been tried to be done before in the past with binaural beats and isochronic tones.
[00:08:53] And this is actually a brand new technology called neural phase locking. And basically the difference is that your brain is super advanced. So we have to have super advanced signs to be able to help, you know, aid in the process that you're doing. So what we're really looking at is how can we align the phase in your brain?
[00:09:13] You can kind of think of it like this. when we add certain patterns and modulations, it's kind of like a light shining into your eye, you're going to have a reaction. Your people will contract when we play music. and we use our AI to basically assist in the creation of music. We're actually changing and have a reaction in your brain and we're redirecting blood flow in your brain by just listening to the music.
[00:09:35]and obviously there's more science we can dive into, but that's really white. Yeah. That's all the effect is working and happening and why we're growing so quickly.
[00:09:43] Wow. Okay. So that's really interesting because I think I had first used this early on and there wasn't. There wasn't the differentiation prior with like the sleep meditation and the different kinds of focus.
[00:10:00] What is happening in the brain when listening to music?
[00:10:00]Erich Wenzel: What you're doing there is you're able to kind of tap into different areas of the brain or brain waves to target different types of focus or even relaxation to downregulate I guess would be the right word.
[00:10:12] Dan Clark: Yeah. So, you know, there there's some. I guess there's a lot to impact there in its general sense is that your brain is communicating to itself.
[00:10:22] And that's the process where aligning the neurons in your brain to all fire on the same phase. So you can kind of think about it in another metaphor and really like a Christmas tree that's plugging and blinking on the different times. And then my listening to the music, we're actually sinking all the lights to blink at the same time. Does that make sense?
[00:10:40] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, no, absolutely. Just putting pieces together as you're explaining it.
[00:10:45] Dan Clark: Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. so I think that that is, you know, it's fun and it's interesting. you know, it's also interesting because there's a lot of, because this has been done before and like subliminal messaging and binaural beats and all that stuff, it's kind of like pop science leftover from the seventies.
[00:11:01] We actually, you know, dispel a lot of things like, The right things and the wrong thing. So like, you know, the different kinds of, you know, I guess Delta patterns and alpha batters and all that stuff, our brain is actually doing all of those all at the same time. And what we're trying to do is help people actually go in and out of those, because you can't stay in one area for a really long time because our brain it's the thing.
[00:11:26] So if, if a car was backing up, beep beep beep beep eventually won't hear it anymore. Right. So, because our brain is so, you know, it's always trying to reach homeostasis to normalization. That's why we basically like free sound and different kinds of things.
[00:11:40] Make sure that the effect is always working. and then why science is a huge pillar of this whole company, because not only do we, you know, discover and research this stuff, but we also test it, on large scale testing to make sure that it actually works, which is, yeah,
[00:11:56] What binaural beats and misconceptions?
[00:11:56] Erich Wenzel: That's really cool. So I guess one of the things to unpack here really quick is you've mentioned binaural beats and, you know, it's like dispelling some of these myths like pseudoscience and not pseudoscience and kind of building a scientific base.
[00:12:07] Framework from the ground up to actually say, yes, this is actually working rather than just selling, you know, a supplement. It says, yeah, you'll get stronger and have a six pack by the end of it kind of thing. Can you just elaborate on things like binaural beats? What are they? And then like common misconceptions.
[00:12:23] And then how does brain FM kind of target these, those misconceptions are, or actually add science to what either some of it got. Right. And then what if it got wrong?
[00:12:34] Dan Clark: Yeah. So, you know, we could probably spend a really long time talking about neuro binaural beats. So, you know, I'm sure there's other things we want to get into.
[00:12:41] Yeah. But on the highest level. but I don't want to be, it's basically two tones played in one in two years. So that's where the bi nural comes from. And what happens is the idea is that if I'm playing two tones that are opposite, it's different frequencies in the middle of your brain. not really, but like in your brain, we'll combine into one and it will help elevate you to different mental States.
[00:13:02]the challenge with that is again, that our brain is really advanced. so that studies that show that, and actually the person that created binaural beats and kind of popularized the term later retracted some of his statements. And, there's, there's tons of papers, which, you know, I'm happy to send you if you want to link in the show notes.
[00:13:19]but, but in reality, you know, there's, there's not a lot of scientific data. It kind of like breaks down on people's personal use cases and, you know, there's a, there's psychological effects that play into the role, like, like a placebo as well as intention based stuff and all these other things.
[00:13:34] And what we really try to do is, how can we. still have some things that, you know, are the same kind of idea, like listen to music, to power in certain kind of modalities, but then also be able to dispel, placebo tests, dispel, you know, you know, really like these, these misnomers, because even if you go on YouTube right now and you search for binaural beats, it's, you'll find hundreds of millions of views on all of these videos and there's people that use it.
[00:14:01] So they definitely want the effect. But, what we're trying to do and what we have done is really shown that, Hey, when you're using for focus, whether you think it's neurals or it's regular music or whatever it may be, we actually can show through fMRI and EEG testing that, it, during control groups with the same exact music with our technology and without our technology, that we actually do have an effect sustain for many of them individuals.
[00:14:27]and that's kind of like the real, I think. separation of that. That we're, we're making music. That sounds good. And you want to listen to, but also have the effects that can be backed up with science.
[00:14:40] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, I think that's part of this group of people who are always trying to push, you know, what's working best or kind of self optimization thing.
[00:14:49] There's a kind of a fine line of like, where does the subjective experience end? And the science begins. It could, because there's so much of this stuff that people kind of just say, well, it makes me feel better. So I'm just going to keep doing it, you know? And so it's hard to ask, especially cause it's N equals one science for a lot of this stuff.
[00:15:07] So a lot of people throw out a statistical term there, but. So for me, it's really interesting to kind of break that down and especially to have something like this, that's rooted in science. For me, it's kind of building, building a technology or building a use case from the ground up in the right way, rather than just saying yes, we know it would work because it makes me feel better. Like that only goes so far.
[00:15:30] Other use cases for Brain.fm
[00:15:30] And so, it makes it interesting for me. And then one of the other things that I like as you're explaining this kind of hit me was have you seen ideas or playing around with the idea that possibly this could be useful for someone who maybe has ADHD or some sort of attention disorders to help get their brain to kind of, not like as a drug per se, but an alternative viewpoint on it, rather than giving them a pill.
[00:15:55] Yeah. So we actually have funding from the government right Now, which helped us, actually complete some of those studies that we've talked about so far, we spent over half a million dollars on science and on investigating the stuff because science is expensive. but actually that grant we got was to see, evaluate if we can be an alternative treatment to ADHD medications.
[00:16:15] Wow. so you know, we really look at it on really three levels. Is, you know, how can this be for a consumer that is just looking to explore possibilities and curation of music and, you know, they don't want to look for their own music. Right. Right. And then the step above that is people that are high achievers that are looking for optimization that are looking to sleep better, to focus better, to, No.
[00:16:42] It's like going to the eye doctor and they say, you know, what's better. One or two, we don't do that. We just tell you, this is the best one for you. Right. Right. And then the third level is actually the. medication level. So I'm not trying to take it the way people's ADHD medication is used in combination with.
[00:17:00] So you can use less, you could use it before you try it medication, but you know, and oars, some people do replace their medication altogether. It's just really case by case basis on how, you know, your physiological, you know, affects, you get from medication. But the great thing about this is there's.
[00:17:18] Because it is music and because our brain has evolved with sound and sound systems, there's no degenerative effects or bad effects from this. besides if you put your headphones on max volume and you crank this super, super loud, you know, so it's kind of a natural system that aids you too. you know, do whatever you're doing better, you know, as long as you're doing the activity.
[00:17:40] Super cool. Because for me, it's, I'm always trying to find tools that maybe it's not supposed to replace what's,
[00:17:47] you know, tried and true, but it's always trying to find something that we can use that, Hey, maybe this might be useful. In certain use case scenarios. Like it's, I'm not saying throw the baby out with the bath water, but just trying to attack a problem with a novel solution that maybe you didn't think about before that kind of circumstance possible, you know, downsides.
[00:18:09] Music and Recovery
[00:18:09] Dan Clark: Yeah. I mean, so one example is, you know, obviously we have a consumer product, with specific medical uses, which we're not actually going through the FDA route just yet or pharmacology. but you know, we are recommended by people that, you know, have ADHD to other people. if you have Asperger's or autism were recommended by a lot of networks through there, but we're also doing medical testing.
[00:18:31] So some of the stuff that we're doing right now, this is exciting. I guess I could share some things, but not everything is we're actually doing brain FM medical. so we have a medical grade version of our music that we play before you go into surgery to calm you down and lower breath, blood pressure and things like that.
[00:18:49] And then actually a brain. If I recover after you've finished surgery. Now, this is often. You know, all that stuff, but we've actually seen that, we increased recovery rates by 200%. People are waking up faster from anesthesia and they're being discharged faster and they're having a lot more.
[00:19:07] Pleasant experience, rather than, you know, this discharging coming to having all these drugs kind of, it's a little bit better of an experience. and you know, that's all grounded in science. and that's one of the reasons why we're doing that to make the product better.
[00:19:22] Erich Wenzel: I think that's super cool because as someone who's really into this kind of like biometric data and like recovery is kind of like this new category that I've really embedded myself in, I'm wearing both a whoop and an aura ring currently. So this is, and especially given the time period where everyone's kind of scared whether or not they got it.
[00:19:40] Cause it's like disease is like a special. You know, latent carrier type effect where you could have it. Yeah. But you don't know if you have it, these wearable devices and even some they're like this where you can recover more quickly. I think there's kind of like secret weapons in this fight where we can understand, like, even though you could be a carrier, it's like, I can look at my recovery data every day and say, Nope, I'm like, you know, in the green, I haven't fallen off a cliff.
[00:20:04] My numbers look good. There's likelihood of me being infected is really low. And to kind of talk about postoperative things like that. My friend of mine, he's a nurse. And he talked about that as, as a way of kind of giving patients a window into their own biology kind of, and like adding music onto that as an extra layer, I think is even even more interesting to me too, to kind of, you know, I'm trying, I'm thinking of studies you could do where you listen to music and have wearable data to see whether or not you're seeing impacts on that end, too.
[00:20:34] Dan Clark: Be really neat. We're actually doing those studies right now. So in probably four months, because science is slow, we'll probably have data on that. That's really cool.
[00:20:43]Where did the foundation of science come from
[00:20:43] Erich Wenzel: So I guess for, to kind of back up a little bit to talk about brain FM from the beginning is like, where did this foundation of science come from?
[00:20:53] Dan Clark: [00:20:53] Yeah, sure. So, the technology and the company was invented by this guy, who was actually making those video games you could control with your mind. Oh, I'm so I don't know if you're familiar with that thing, but basically the idea is you put on an EEG helmet, right. And you think. Go left and the plane goes left.
[00:21:10] Right. And if it's calibrated enough, you could do that. the challenge that that happened was that one, all those things are super expensive, right? This is like, I guess 15, 18 years ago. Yeah. But additionally, They're not really accurate. You need, like, if you have hair, if you like, I don't have hair, right.
[00:21:28] So maybe it's more accurate to me, but, you know, it's challenging the dream to basically calibrate different individuals because everyone is a little bit different. And, the inventor was also a musician and we noticed that when he was calibrating, cause he wore all the time that when he was playing guitar that he had similar, you know, data, right.
[00:21:48] And then really became obsessed with the idea on how music can control and change your, your mental state or really, you know, your brain activity specifically. and then started really diving into it. He started looking at binaural and isochronic tones and saw it on his own device that these don't really work, what could work and really created this whole like testing framework, which evolves into, I guess, a trial by fire before we had all this science and, you know, he stumbled across something, you know, became brain FM. And, and now we have, you know, leading auditory neuroscientists that we collaborate with are all employed by the company.
[00:22:28] And we, you know, we look at where we are today and where we're heading and, this is kind of. Basically productizing this bleeding edge resource research into neuroscience, like they're using certain kinds of technology that's similar to us to actually investigate if they can cure Alzheimer's and like reverse.
[00:22:46] Like, there's a lot of really interesting things in this field of work. But, what I guess the main point is really like a lot of the times. People do all this really interesting research and it just stays at the research level. So because we've helped develop this research from the ground up, we're actually, as we're researching it, we're actually putting it into our product and making it better.
[00:23:08]so it's, it's special because of that. So it's built off of that
[00:23:11] Erich Wenzel: The feedback loop is really interesting there because a lot of times, you know, research happens and then it just kind of sits there and a research paper and yeah. Either gets cited a bunch of times, or it just gets lost to the dustbin of history as they are okay.
[00:23:24] To kind of build a company in the sense where it has the internal feedback loop already, where it's embedded in studies legitimately and trying to, okay. We see this part works. How do we make that into a product and understand how to do that? That's a special skill that I don't think many people think about, you know?
[00:23:42]A lot of times it's like that engineering thing where it's like, you build something, but it's like a fun thing to build, but not necessarily a thing to build or it's like, how do you monetize? That is the tricky part.
[00:23:51] A perfect storm of technology to make this possible
[00:23:51] Dan Clark: I think we fell into something really, really special.
[00:23:55]and I think part of that was, just about how this is . I think it's, it's really interesting cause I think it's the timing. So. 10 years ago, this could be a reality because we have AI now works and things like that. And we can, we can build, right. Okay. So we didn't have the computer technology to really do all this stuff.
[00:24:14]because we're AI assisted with humans, to make it work, but also make it sound good. But what's also really interesting is headphones in the last five years. Just become revolutionary. You know, I'm talking to you right now on these Apple AirPods. I have the sound canceling mode and like it's, it's, it's crazy.
[00:24:32] Right. And it's just getting better and better and better. So, you know, the reason why I think we're starting to, to, you know, become a product, be growing significantly is really because. Yeah. You know, we have neuroscience, but everything else has also kind of led into where we are today.
[00:24:52] Erich Wenzel: No, yeah, absolutely.
[00:24:53] I think you're making a good point. It's like, you know, you can say how this person had the great idea and made it work, you know, like the great men of history, so to speak, but it's also, there's a lot of these little things that make this Goldilocks effect of having the internet at your disposal, then, you know, really powerful cell phones that have enough computing power that make this.
[00:25:13] Where does AI play a role?
[00:25:13]My question is, does this like AI stuff, is this during the creation of the music or is this during playing it's it actively adjusting things?
[00:25:22] Dan Clark: So, we're doing it, during the creation of the music. And the reason for that is because we still want to make something that sounds good to humans. There's tons of AI generation tools that you can find that can make music dynamically with the challenges that either they sound fuzzy, they don't sound like enjoyable music.
[00:25:43] It kind of sounds Trone and it gets old after a while, or there's not the science or the technology. So really we're building it in at the start. and the way I kind of like, you know, I'm a big person on metaphors is kinda where we have. I'm a building and basically the sound engineers and composers are designing the facade.
[00:26:03] They're making it look pretty. They have like all this, but they have to design it with the AI because if they want to build. You know, a 30 foot structure or a 5,000 foot structure. They have to have the right foundation if they want to have an overhang and they have to have a right, you know, whatever.
[00:26:20] And, and that's really what this is doing. It's like mixing and matching stuff because at the end of the day, I think it's, it's just super important that we make music that you actually want to listen to because of this design. So listen the whole time you're working. So if you're working for two hours, you have to be listening to these two hours.
[00:26:36] And, you know, right now I think with our current technology, you know, that's where we are, but we're, you know, exploring different things in the future.
[00:26:43]What was it like for Dan to stumble into this?
[00:26:43]Erich Wenzel: I think so to kind of unpack further, because your situation, like you said, is really unique. What was it like for you to kind of stumble upon this?
[00:26:51] You know, as someone who's. Well, again, working a weird schedule at that being a developer, being a coder, you're stuck behind your screen all the time. And you kind of just have to be able to just laser lock focus and just get it done even if it's not working. Yeah. And I have a feeling that there's a lot of people like you in the sense that who would be either attracted to this or just.
[00:27:12] Not sure about it, cause they're partly hesitant, you know, because of that placebo effect and kind of the science that we buy aligned. So what was it like for you just for like exposure, if you can remember what it was like just to stumble upon it.
[00:27:23] Dan Clark: Totally, totally. so it's funny, cause I think about this moment all the time, because this is actually what I'm trying to build the company into.
[00:27:31]so I remember my first time being hesitant, you know, again, we're working on, you know, showing that. You know, we have science and all that stuff, but it's all in the thing. But I really remember trying this as in a, I love trying new things. This is probably not going to work. I'll just throw my headphones in and start working.
[00:27:47] And I remember taking my headphones out and doing like double the work, like just flying through things. And I was like, Holy crap. This is amazing. But it can't be real. It's so amazing, you know, you know, and that's a lot of our customers do that. Right. and basically I started saying, okay, I'm going to stay up all night and then I'm going to do this, or I'm going to, I'm going to wake up at 10:00 AM, which I never would do and put this on.
[00:28:15] And the takeaway was really, it completely changed my life, you know? So I went yeah. From waking up and my brain not turning on. So really like 11, 11:00 AM. As a result, I never, I like basically cheated my way through high school. Well, it dropped off my senior year and then tested out by going to a university kind of thing.
[00:28:34] Like I basically couldn't have a regular job or even do really well in school because I was just never awake. You know, like if you literally looked at my grade point averages, it would be like any class that's before 11 o'clock. I would just like, get a C or D and it wasn't that I wasn't good.
[00:28:53] It's just like, I wasn't awake. Like I just never, I think I set the highest. I remember in high school I had like 180 late days or something like that basically every day. But really, you know, moving into brain FM and finding it and discovering it. Over the first two weeks, it dramatically changed my life, or I was like, I have control now.
[00:29:13] And just this morning I actually woke up at 5:00 AM and I did meditation and then went into brain FM. And that's my schedule now. and you know, from that, not only has it inspired me to work for the company where I started working for free and then, you know, ended up, you know, running the company, but really.
[00:29:29] I've been trying to figure out and iterate and build the product as I can give that same control and that ability to everyone that uses brain FM. And that's really the funding and the starting point of how do we spread this and give, you know, a million people or more, the ability to control their mental state on demand.
[00:29:49] Erich Wenzel: I think that's a really full story on many levels. And I want to unpack some of it too, because like, sure. I think like you're starting to say where you couldn't be awake or like fully conscious inquiry rotation marks, you know, before 10:00 AM. And I think a lot of them people have that, like pushed back circadian rhythm where they're just not predisposed to waking up early, you know? And I think in our society that pushes a lot of. The connotation around people who, who can't wake up early, they look like they're lazy. They look like they're underachievers, all of that negative stuff. I've worked with people like that.
[00:30:25] And then they kind of are chronically just, you know, have dead end type jobs. They work overnight at places or whatever, you know, the places and times that people don't want to work in average life. So for you, it's like, can you explain what it was like for you? And then, you know, because again, you're a CEO now, so to have that kind of background and then to be able to say, yeah, you're a CEO and work your way through is I think really powerful to give a lot of people, the possibility that they could do something that even though society says, they most likely couldn't because of the way they sleep or the way that, you know, their circadian rhythm predisposes them.
[00:31:03] Circadian Rhythm and Sleep Routines
[00:31:03] Dan Clark: Yeah, happy to. So, you know, I think of a quick note before I dive into that, you make it, you know, you make a really interesting point. and it's true is that, you know, today we're surrounded by technology. We have phones, we have blue screens, you know, and they've been shown to, you know, extend this circadian rhythm out.
[00:31:19]I think that, you know, it's really interesting because if you look at us from an evolutionary perspective, right. Even sleeping like eight hours is, and then, you know, coming out is not like the most natural thing for us to do. It was like this snap and then wake up in the middle of the night and then go back and app again, I guess.
[00:31:39]so, you know, it's interesting and, and I think that. Really brain FM at a hole is a tool among many to be able to apply to, you know, fix the problem right. Where, you know, we have technology. That's great. Really the roots of the reason why are, are. We're coming out of this natural kind of thing. So, you know, our approach is using technology to fix it.
[00:32:03]and I think on a whole is, is, you know, some people it's like at the bait most basic it's like plugging in and unplugging, you know? and really it's just about being able to figure out. I guess getting in touch with yourself and understanding like, Hey, you know what, maybe drinking four gallons of coffee a day is not the best thing to do.
[00:32:23] Maybe there's other approaches. And some people like, listen, like some people do that and I have no problem with it. I drink three cups of coffee a day. I love coffee. I just love coffee. But you know, figuring out, you know, what is the right? You know, again, tools and yeah, I mean, that's really where I think our main, main focus is, because.
[00:32:42] It's something that people. It's like a low barrier entry. Right? Is it, you know, if you want to, if you want to try it, you literally just throw your headphones in, you sit down and computer and you just have to do it in combination of what you would already be doing. Yeah. And then at the end of that, you know, 60, 90 minutes, you're like, okay, did it work or did it not?
[00:32:59] Or am I unsure? Yeah. And if you're unsure, I mean, we know that it works for everyone, but, if you're unsure or if you're, if you think it works and continue doing it, if you don't tell me and I'll tell you, you know how to fix it, but, yeah. That's really where we're focused on.
[00:33:13] Making technology in service of the user
[00:33:13] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, I like that a lot.
[00:33:15] It's one of the themes that I've noticed in my background is an engineer. So I tend to think of things as like, how do we create technology that works for the user and not the other way around. Our technology on our phones a lot of times with notifications and all this stuff, winds up being in service of the technology rather than the user, you know, with notification or the dopamine, drip, blah, blah, blah. Like we can go all day about that kind of stuff. And so that's one thing that I really enjoy about this because. It's kind of pushing back on that paradigm of like, let's give the user the ability to actually speak and talk or not speak, but like actually do the things they want to do rather than being distracted and scrolling through, you know, Instagram or Facebook for extra five minutes of when they shouldn't have been.
[00:34:00] Dan Clark: It's also interesting too, just to comment on that, is that like, you know, I talked about the tool, but it's also the intentionality. So part of people. You know, using brain FM or other tools is when they say, Hey, I'm actually going to focus for 60 minutes. That's part of just, you know, saying I am going to commit to something, right.
[00:34:19] Which you know, all these tools where they're vibing, they're taking our attention. That's actually part of the challenge is you get a Facebook thing, you get an Instagram bang, you get a text message. Sometimes it's really great. Just say, okay, I'm turning them all off for 30 minutes and I'm going to do something.
[00:34:36] Whatever that activity may be, which is powerful.
[00:34:39] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, it's one of the things I enjoy about the app itself. And just other things like, do you have any other ways that you pattern interrupt, I guess like for yourself, like when you need to either focus or get prepared for something, even little things that matter.
[00:34:53] Pattern interrupts to get focused
[00:34:53] Dan Clark: Yeah, totally. So, I think I have a, of things that I do within, within brain FM and different kinds of combinations, and then also other things that prepare me for using the tool or whatever that may be. So one of those is, you know, yeah. I think habits are super important. So grounding yourself in habits or adding it into habits you already have.
[00:35:12] So for example, when I, you know, most people drink coffee or tea in the morning, what I recommend, if you want to try brain FM, instead of saying, okay, I'm going to drink coffee and tea and do whatever. And I'm going to just put my brain up. I'm on when I need it. Start your day. So when I sit down every day, I have a couple of ice coffee, no matter what temperature is on the outside.
[00:35:32] And I have an open notebook and I just journal and I have a brain, if I'm on and I'm going through elections. And what I accomplished yesterday, when I still have to do today was my to do list. I plan and rehearse my day with my calendar. So I go through. Like today, for example, I had a podcast with you at a few other meetings and I in the morning before my day even starts, I just sit through, what are we going to talk about?
[00:35:55] What are we going to do? What are the things that I need to prepare, maybe mentally, or maybe even physically, like I need to have certain data. and I'm doing that all as part of this, this habitual process too. Really just like flying through things. and then that helps a lot. so combine different kinds of methodologies.
[00:36:12] So like if you're familiar with Pomodoro techniques and things like that, where you basically play focus and then you play relaxed music. And they play focus again. So what will happen is you're giving yourself a break and then what happens is it's like, I guess people can't see my hand, but basically you're up at the curb and then you go down and when you go back up, instead of going into the same level, you actually go into deeper focus, which is okay so that's fun. is great.
[00:36:38] You know, I think it really comes down to like what. Is it important to you? Sometimes I usually don't use brain.fm to sleep every night. I only really use it when I'm traveling. because I don't really have problems sleeping, so I don't need to, but I do and always have had troubles focusing.
[00:36:53] So that's really my main crux. And you've talked to some people, they say, listen, I just use this for meditation and sleeping. Like, it's really that three 60, like, what is the best fit for you? And it just empowers your activities. Really.
[00:37:05] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. That's, that's really neat. And it's, it's interesting. Cause it kind of comes at it from a different angle than a lot of these other focus based, you know, mindfulness type apps and stuff like that. I'm kind of going on another angle here too is again, it's going along those lines of like best investment, their time energy doesn't have to be money, but just investment in your own life. What is like paid dividends for you?
[00:37:33] The Power of Travel
[00:37:33] Dan Clark: A 100% travel. Yeah, for me. so I've been to seven continents, I've done them all out. yeah. And, yeah, I mean, I went to Australia when I was 21 for a month and it completely changed my life. I realized that, you know, standing on the other side of the world that you can really do anything you want, as long as you.
[00:37:52] Make a plan to do so, and then, you know, have a goal you're working towards. And I think that travel is a really cool thing. metaphor for your process. So if you have a goal. You know, you can kind of think about it in the same way as planning a trip. Cause you don't want to just get off a plane and just go.
[00:38:11] And I've totally done that before. you know, but you, you learn along the way and then you can directly apply some of those lessons to life. I highly recommend traveling
[00:38:20] Erich Wenzel: Any memorable moments other than going to Australia for the first time. Like any highlights.
[00:38:24] Dan Clark: Oh, geez. Let's see. I've been to a lot of places.
[00:38:29]Top highlights. So Australia, you know, great. Because it was one of my biggest ones. Thailand, yeah. In Lao, I wear a bracelet every day for the last seven years because of an instance there, which is a story in itself. let's see, I guess two years ago I went to Antarctica. and they have 18 hour sunsets because it's all like on the other side of the world and it's like that, that craziness.
[00:38:52] So, that was. Pretty all inspiring to see a sunset that's frozen almost. And then it's so beautiful and so gorgeous. And then four hours later, it's the same thing. And you're like, all right, I'm going to go do something else. but yeah, a lot of, a lot of cool stuff. And then the people you meet along the way, it is, definitely the most eye opening, you know, different cultures and really challenging our own belief systems.
[00:39:13] So then when you come back, you integrate them into the things that you learn. Oh, I saw this person doing this. You know, it's the same thing from these podcasts, you know, listen to podcasts sometime. And you're like, this is amazing. I want to try this out and then you either adopt it into your life or you discard it, but having the choice is important.
[00:39:29] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. I think that's cool, I love the idea of traveling as someone I live in the Midwest. So for me, the, the idea of travel can be a little difficult for people who live in the Midwest because they put deep roots in, my family doesn't want to move and has never really moved around much, you know, maybe the few neighboring States around, but outside of that, all the traveling I've had to do so far is either from work or my own accord.
[00:39:52] And so it kind of puts this bubble around you. And so when I hear people say traveling, I'm just like, yes, Cool. Like, cause it helps me make that next mental leap to want to do it because there's a lot of mental friction for me even I want to go do it and given circumstances, it's not like we can't go do that yet right now, but eventually
[00:40:10] Dan Clark: definitely can't now, but you can definitely plan and create that bucket list of whatever you want.
[00:40:15]you know, I don't come from a family that travels either. so I've been to seven continents. My parents have been to two States. Three States maybe. and I think that's part of the reason why it's spurred me to travel, to be honest. but you know, that's part of the, I think the excitement is to challenge yourself and to grow because of it.
[00:40:33] How has Dan been challenging himself in 2020?
[00:40:33] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. So I guess a good question there does just bounce off of that is, is what have you been challenging yourself with for 2020 maybe, or even last year? So like maybe the last two years.
[00:40:46]Dan Clark: Let's take 2020. There's a lot of things on that even. I think the biggest, the biggest things are actually, you know, driving direction in the business, and actually doing, less.
[00:40:57] I don't want to say Le less of it, but like more hands off and, and finding the right leaders to do so. So, you know, I'm very passionate. It's like you could tell by, you know, what we're building. But part of the growth factor is also allowing people to, to see their own vision, alter my vision into whatever they can and build this product together.
[00:41:17] So that's been something I'm challenging myself to do. And I think from it, you know, we're starting to have explosive growth, because. Basically, I don't want to be a limitation on how big brain FM is. So I'm, you know, still heavily involved in it for a very long time. but really the, the growth factor of, you know, helping other people.
[00:41:36] Helped me, you know, empower people and spread this. So that's, that's fun. and then just relationships, you know, figuring out how I can, I meet new people that are amazing. And then also keep up with old people that are amazing because I think at the end of the day, you know, relationships are one of your most valuable assets.
[00:41:53] Leadership and Trust
[00:41:53] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. So there's two things you can go from there. It's like being a leader in many ways especially in a business is like, you are the idea person, you're like the captain at the pointing the direction, you know, like saying we're going here and here's, here's where we're heading, but you still have to rely on a lot of people who are actually doing the work or, or, you know, managing the subprocesses and stuff like that.
[00:42:17] And so. Pulling yourself out of the system a little bit to let and trust other people. Like how do you develop trust within your teams? Because I think that's a, a thing, a lot of entrepreneurs kind of gloss over when they say they want to become an entrepreneur, they don't think about the aspect of, they have to give their baby away to some degree
[00:42:38] Dan Clark: Share, the baby. Co raise the baby
[00:42:40] Exactly. Yes. So I think, I think there's a lot to be said about that. I think leadership is a. Different for the different individuals and different leadership styles. And I think that that comes from the source of how there's weddings, there're many ways to lead in different organizations, because the fact of the matter is the organization needs to be led in different ways.
[00:43:03] You know? So if you took, I don't know, a leader of, A nonprofit that's, you know, doing hundreds of billions of dollars of charity work. And then you took someone that was, I don't know, a hundred thousand, right. Those are completely different things. So they have to be led in different ways. I think the other factor is the person.
[00:43:21] So I had to figure out. The best way for me to communicate, and the best way to do this, I need to be, to communicate it, to be able to fit in my comfort zone as well as, kind of like, I guess, a growth factor I'd like in the trajectory and what I'm trying to pay for. Yeah. so I think there's honestly just a balance, you know, you can't read all the books in the world.
[00:43:44]But I think it's partly taking what you can learn and trying to implement it saying first, does this make sense? and then C and then trying it on like a pair of shoes, you know, and saying, okay, this is great, but these are my bare shoes, you know? And, and the more shoes you try on, and the more adaptations you make, you tie the laces, a certain way.
[00:44:07] Tightness or, you know, let them loose or whatever, then you start getting a little bit more comfortable and then you, you're not worried about your shoes anymore. And now you say, okay, what kind of pants am I wearing? And I think that's like, you know, it's, it's hard to kind of. I guess as far as qualitative things like what leadership is, but you know, I think that the struggles that I faced and other people it's really like, just figuring out, you know, and taking action, taking action is the big thing.
[00:44:36] Connection and Communication
[00:44:36] Erich Wenzel: I think you're, you're nailing it to some degree because it's, it's. That there is no one size fits all to leadership, you know, it really depends on the dynamics that you have with your team and, and how people respond within that team. And so you can't really. It's prescribed anything unless you're part of it. Right.
[00:44:53] So it's not really, really hard. And it's, you know, you're the only thing you can do is kind of like the high level things of like, you know, honoring the individual and stuff like that. But I think that's been kind of beat to Dustin, you know, in quotable books at this point. So there's no point in rehashing it too much there, but I think you did nail one thing with the communication aspect.
[00:45:12] Being able to connect and communicate to other people and articulate what you're trying to say. And for someone like yourself, you've come off as really well-spoken and you know, not the typical developer type again, like the stereotype types that we all kind of carry around people. Was that always a part of who you were like being able to communicate well and speak clearly?
[00:45:32] Dan Clark: No. so actually growing up, I had a very bad stutter. so I actually did speech training for like the first four plus first grade. So like. Fourth grade, I think, fifth grade. so, so much so that I was actually putting in a slow learning class because I couldn't talk very well. and I didn't want to talk because I had such a speech impediment.
[00:45:53]so it's funny if you look at it like, you know, it's just a learning process. Like if you look up other interviews, I did like three years ago. I remember the first summit was live TV and I went right back into that kind of stuttering thing. and it's just really, it's the same thing as leadership in any other thing, it's just practice, you know, I do podcasts like these all the time and now I don't really worry about what I'm saying.
[00:46:15] And if I'm saying the right things, I just talk and have fun and you know, hopefully it comes off that way.
[00:46:19] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, I know. That's cool. The reason I say this is because I was someone probably in high school was, was the shyest person you could ever imagine. And barely could even formulate a sentence since let alone talk for hours and hours with strangers.
[00:46:34] And now I can do this, you know, I get excited to do this more than anything else. Like I could sit behind a microphone and a camera and be like, yes, here we go. We're going to go. When most millennial people don't like talking on the phone here. I care. I am recording our long podcasts with people I've never had conversations with before.
[00:46:54] You know, it's really counterintuitive to that degree. When you, when you kind of look backwards and kind of see where you're like referencing where you were to where you are no.
[00:47:02] Growth and how to foster it
[00:47:02] What it seems like for me, you have a really, you know, what's now considered a growth mindset where you're, where you're always anchored in that what you're doing today.
[00:47:10] And if you do it well and you keep doing it over time, you'll get better. Totally who gave that to you? Was it just through reading or was it family? Teachers?
[00:47:20] Dan Clark: [00:47:20] Yeah. So, great question. And, some stuff I don't get to explore in a lot of these podcasts, so kudos to that really in depth question. so, I use these martial arts.
[00:47:30] I'm actually a secondary black belt. So once I was 16, I started teaching, I started doing martial arts when I was around 11. and from there we really use martial arts. This is a vehicle to instill confidence in success and life skills and kids. and I'm one of the results. So that program, right.
[00:47:48]and by teaching it, I really learned. Of how a kid can come in and you know, maybe he's a little chubby, maybe he's a little bit uncoordinated, maybe he's super shy, which was me. I was super shy and, yeah, just not confident in myself or my abilities and, you know, over the years I, you know, by learning, Oh, I'm actually good at something I'm actually good at, you know, doing blocks or kicks or punches.
[00:48:12]and then seeing the confidence and still from that, and then. You know, seeing it like directly teaching kids and seeing them, you know, over the years. it's interesting. Cause the kids that I used to teach when I was 16 or 17, when they were 10 or even younger, I guess like six, now they're in college, you know what I mean?
[00:48:30] And, and it's very interesting to see that like, Them having and growing over the years and then becoming an individual. And I guess that's where that started. there's also a great book if you want to like, save yourself eight years and, and read the slight edge. Okay. it's by Jeff, I think it's Jeff Olson.
[00:48:49]but it basically talks about how. You know, none of us see cheeseburgers and die. So that's why everyone's fat. It's because it's the slight edge of learning that is like compounding principles. Right. And, I think it's Atomic Habits has this stuff in it too, but yeah, it's just, it's knowing the truth.
[00:49:06] It's knowing that. Okay. That, that does make sense in my mind. And believing it, which I think is important. It's, it's one thing, knowing it's another thing, believing it. And then the third level is living by it. Yeah. So I know that, you know, tomorrow is I'm going to get 1% better. How am I going to do that?
[00:49:23]And having that kind of philosophy on how you build life, I think is, is, yeah, that's kind of want to make her in, cause I want to make it. I want to have a great life and I want to help other people. And I can't do that by not leading by it. Right.
[00:49:34] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's why I do this to some degree, you know, it's providing the inference for other peoples to learn and lead a more fulfilling life. That's it, like, there's not much more to it. And, and, you know, you can't say that unless you do it yourself. And, you know, part of doing this as is exploring,
[00:49:53] the possibilities and then also exploring. Can you actually make this thing, you know, there's a lot that goes into a system of recording, you know, creating graphics, creating, you know, all these extra embedded things.
[00:50:05] You don't really think about it. And then it's like, you have to learn it. And then all of a sudden you have all of these extra skills that you wouldn't otherwise it's similar to, like for young kids learning martial arts.
[00:50:14]I was a kid like that growing up myself. I really didn't. I care about sports.
[00:50:18] I was uncoordinated and then shy. And so I didn't really give it a try. I had a very fixed mindset and it wasn't until I was like 21 that I finally gave up working out in the movement and actual attempt. And it was through that, that I wound up gaining so much more self confidence in myself, and then it kind of realized.
[00:50:41] Especially as someone who's intellectual, that there is that mind body connection, like it's, it's legitimate. And if you let one side degrade, the other side doesn't, you know, is, is kind of limited too. So I it's, it's really powerful, I think. And we can learn a lot from martial arts and just kind of being exposed to movement, even if it's not like from a competitive standpoint it's, I think it's cool.
[00:51:05] Anchor to the process
[00:51:05] Dan Clark: Yeah. I, I think the only thing I would add is, like I say, any challenging activity at all, whether it's making a podcast doing martial arts, or I don't know, doing any, really, any kind of sport or any kind of activity that is hardly even video games could be like, this is challenging yourself. And then working really, really hard to be able to accomplish both.
[00:51:24] I think video games are probably too easy. It's not challenging enough because eventually you'll figure it out and win. but the goal is not to win. The goal is to do and be better. You know, you can't win at a podcast, you know, like maybe you can be number one, but it's a lot, it's a lot harder to get there.
[00:51:40] It's a lot, you know, you have to do all these things. And I think that the process and saying, you know what, this is gonna be hard, but I'm going to do my best here. You know, that's, that's the journey that's well worth the effort, you know, that's why we become better
[00:51:55] Erich Wenzel: committing to the process. And then, you know, consistency, it's like those two keywords that are like, be the foundation of doing anything part of the, for me that I've, I've learned in very recently, they kind of like struck me as that.
[00:52:09] I have coworkers of mine at my day job. And they, some of them have 30 years of experience in a singular field and I have to stop and tell myself, I'm like, dude, you can't expect to be like somebody or. You know, an expert when you've only been doing this for, you know, a quarter, like they've been doing it longer than you've been alive on this planet.
[00:52:30] Like that one thing. So it's kind of like, as a young person, you gotta stop and like realize sometimes that, Hey, you shouldn't be ahead of where you think you should be because you still just gotta put time behind it to some degree, even though there's evidence that 10,000 hours, it's not true, but it. There is still a time factor in a lot of these things. You just got to just put numbers in.
[00:52:53] Dan Clark: Totally, totally. Yeah. Working smart, right?
[00:52:56] Recommended Books
[00:52:56] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, exactly. So we're getting close to an hour already, which time flies do you have any other books that either you've gifted or just favorite books that have impacted you?
[00:53:07] Dan Clark: Sure. So I mentioned Atomic Habits, fantastic. Highly, highly recommend that.
[00:53:11]I love the book Relentless by Tim S Grover. Cool. so he was Michael Jordan's basketball coach. And, I'm like you, I don't really know, sorry, everyone. I don't really care about sports. because at the end of the day it doesn't really affect me. I like, you know, I'll watch sports here now, but I don't follow anything.
[00:53:27] but regardless I was recommended this book and I just. It's really interesting. It talks about, about aligning your self interests or the things that are like dark. I'm doing finger quotes, and aligning that to, you know, being your fire, you know, so, you know, we kind of talked about it earlier.
[00:53:49] It is like we want to service and help people. But part of it is the challenge of challenging ourselves. Can we do that, that right. And I think that aligning your, your unselfish desires, right. And your selfish desires of like your personal challenge, together in one uniform thing is super powerful that a lot of people don't wanna talk about because it's like, you know, I don't know, bad Juju or whatever it is, but, you know, I think everyone has selfish desires, you know, somewhere similar, you know, not always bad, you know, as long as you do them in the right way.
[00:54:22] And, you know, that's, what I've really tried to do is, you know, I like the puzzle. I want to grow brain FM to help a lot of people. But it's also fun because I want to help figure it out and do that. So, you know, lining those in the right direction is, is, a certain superpower I think. And I definitely recommend that.
[00:54:38] The power of sport
[00:54:38] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. That's a really cool book. I, you know, like you're saying, like, I don't care about sports in the sense of like, as. A watcher but what I do find interesting about sports is being able to talk or learn about the people behind it, like trainers or getting inside the minds of elite athletes and figuring out like, okay, how do they organize their lives so that they can perform, right? Because to some degree we can all cause those are the things that matter. Like obviously I'm not going to be an NBA player. I'm five, six, so that's already, but like I can. Listen to how, you know, Coby or someone or Michael Jordan trained, or how he thought about doing reps and apply it to my own life in whatever where I care about.
[00:55:18] Right. And you can do that total infinitum. It doesn't matter who it is.
[00:55:23] Dan Clark: I think sports is such a great case study almost. Yeah. On personal achievement and just achievement overall, you know, the person, I remember the story of the person that broke the four minute. Yeah. And they talked about how he did that?
[00:55:38] Yeah. And one of those is he mentally rehearsed, breaking and running and what it felt like running under four minutes. And, you know, I don't want to run a minute, a mile in four minutes to be honest, but I do the same thing as I was mentioning earlier when I figure out what I'm going to do today. So I'm cursing in my mind before I even do it, what's going to happen. and I think that, yeah, that visualization structure, you know, finding out all these parallels like the support structure that these individuals have, you know, and replicating it. Can go a long way.
[00:56:09] Advice on jump starting into new a direction
[00:56:09] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, I think it was really cool. I just finding ways to replicate, you know, what people, what works for other people and maybe it works for you, I think is really important. and then kind of. A wrap up question or second to last wrap up question. But if you could give advice to either someone who's either just getting out of college or maybe someone given the circumstance with COVID-19, who might be driven, but can't really do anything right now. Like, do you have any advice for someone how they would like to jumpstart themselves to kind of, you know, light their fire again or something like that?
[00:56:44] Not really motivation, but just something that they could point in a direction.
[00:56:48] Dan Clark: So I think all energy and motivation come from curiosity. I think like one of the reasons why I'm so. Passionate and on fire about brain FM is because at the end of the day, this has been something I've always been trying to fix.
[00:57:03] And I've always been curious about how to do it. And that's what drove me to do all these nootropics and all these different kinds of solutions. None of them really like to sit and it just lined up. you know, and I say people that, you know, it kind of just, I w I was lucky, but in reality, I was kind of searching for it my whole life.
[00:57:20] And then I came across it. And I think that if you're coming out of college or you're, you're in this situation with the COVID, you know, really what are you curious about? You know, go to square one, do some journaling, right? Like maybe, maybe you're hearing us say we don't like sports and you're like, no, I love sports.
[00:57:35] Right? Why? Figure out what the root of that is. You know, if you're really interested in like, I don't know, technology, that's going to be replenishment like vertical farming or something like that. You should just learn everything you can about that topic. And I think from then you can start aligning that with opportunity.
[00:57:58]and that's what I tell every single person that says, Hey, I want to be, I want to, you know, find some fire and be passionate and, you know, just find something that you actually care about. And that is, should be the center of the trajectory. You base your decisions off of. Yeah,
[00:58:13] Erich Wenzel: I really agree because it's like, once you find the thing that you would do regardless, then it just kind of it's, it's the engine that could, it just keeps feeding itself and you just are always up to date and then you kind of, you know, someone mentioned something and then you just run with it and then you're like, cool.
[00:58:29] And then next thing you know, you're, you know, five years later, you're like, well, I guess I'm
[00:58:32] here now. You got it.
[00:58:36] Control what you can
[00:58:36] That's awesome. So, anything else are stories that come to mind that you want to add or advice to people, given the circumstances, you know, in these uncertain times,
[00:58:46] Dan Clark: Yeah. You know, I think that, I guess to close on is that there's, it's just so many things that we can't control right now.
[00:58:52] And I think now more than ever, it's really important to control the things that we can, which is specifically our mindset, our thoughts, our mental States, because at the end of the day, humans are one of the, well, they're the only organism that we know of. That which can actually change your own habits can actually, you know, predict the future with like what we want to do, you know, facing, I want to take this action and then doing that action, is, is really, really powerful.
[00:59:18] And I think that, you know, because there's so many things that you can't control. By deciding and controlling what you can, you can get a lot of strengths and a lot of value. So I encourage people if you're scared or you don't know what to do, you know, to kind of think about it that way.
[00:59:34] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. Well said, I think that's really good advice for a lot of people right now, especially as some paranoia starts to set in where people don't know who's infected and who's not, I think having a little bit of caution and being able to control.
[00:59:48] What's in your control is probably the best antidote we have right now.
[01:00:00] Erich Wenzel: Where can we connect with you?
[01:00:03] Dan Clark: Yeah, sure. So, you know, you can try out that brain FM it's just brain.fm, or you were on the app store and the iOS, you know, you can.
[01:00:11] Try that out. We give five sessions away for everyone for free. If you guys want to reach out to me, you can send me an email at Dan at brain.FM, super easy. but yeah, I really hope that this is valuable for everyone today.
[01:00:22] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, this is awesome. Thanks, Dan. This is really good. And I really appreciate your time.
[01:00:27] Dan Clark: Yeah, my pleasure.
Today on the podcast, we are joined by Joe Jackowski. Joe is a Marine Corps veteran and current graduate student at Vanderbilt University in the Cognitive Psychology in Context program. His primary interest is meaning in life, which broadly extends to problems in ethics, A.I., and culture.
In this episode, we sit down to discuss his first long-form article on his new sub stack, Apotheosis: A Philosophy for Influencers