Jordan Criss: Screenwriting, Film, and Growth

“I don’t want to be older, let’s say 60 or 70 and look back on this time of my life and be like, I really didn’t give it my all. I don’t want to have regret, and I think that is always here. Always kind of in the shadows, and It feels like something’s like reaching out to grab you. Honestly, that is one of the scariest things to me.

To look back on life and be like, wow, I didn’t give myself a real chance and whatever. I mean, and put whatever you want. I think that’s what really feeds my curiosity and everything I do is just not leaving anything on the table. ”

— Jordan Criss

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Jordan Criss long time guest on the podcast, and many of you know, what he's been working on, but for those of you who don't. Jordan has been actively pursuing screenwriting.

In this conversation, we get pretty granular and talking about how he looks at his writing process, why he is choosing to do screenwriting, As such a niche field, screenwriting can feel like a lost cause or something that is a pipe dream, for lack of a better term. And I even asked this question to him is what would you say to someone who says, why are you doing this? Screenwriting seems like a waste of time.

And beyond that, we have a great discussion around the film as an industry and loving critiques of it. What shows are good or great? What makes compelling stories?

We get into what is a fulfilling life like what drives someone to do something and fully immerse yourself in it. For Jordan, it's not leaving anything on the table. So with that, everyone, please enjoy this conversation with my good friend, Jordan Criss.

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Show Notes:

[00:04:22] Writing Progress

[00:06:07] Writing is never really 'done'

[00:07:06] Screenwriting Contest

[00:10:48] New writing project

[00:13:33] Dissecting writing or storytelling

[00:17:17] Creating your unique blend

[00:20:53] What do you say to someone who thinks you're wasting your time?

[00:24:25] What type of writer is Jordan?

[00:28:04] Toning down expert speak

[00:29:29] Star Wars Discussion

[00:33:19] Everyone has a niche

[00:34:37] Immerse yourself in the cultures you want to be a participant in

[00:36:41] A community that pushes everyone forward 

[00:40:13] How do you know you can do something you've never done before?

[00:41:44] Don't wait for the perfect moment

[00:42:44] The curse of past success?

[00:45:45] Continuing to explore new territory

[00:47:18] There is a simple solution to success

[00:49:28] Jordan's Process to Pick a movie in the Theatre 

[00:51:49] 4DX Movie Theatre

Rolling Stone on 4DX Theartre

[00:56:16] The difference between theater and home experience

[00:58:24] Letting people express themselves

[01:02:31] Being of the world 

[01:05:17] Changing or keeping routines

[01:06:49] Speaking what you write

[01:09:40] A love of dialogue

[01:14:20] Adapting other forms to screenplays

[01:17:09] Gold Age of TV

[01:21:39] Sci-fi gives you worlds that could be

[01:26:48] Office Discussion

[01:30:21]What does feeding curiosity look like for Jordan

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Full Transcript: Jordan Criss: Screenwriting, Film and Growth

[00:03:49] Erich Wenzel: Boom. Jordan Criss in the house. 

[00:03:53] Jordan Criss: What's up? It's been a while. 

[00:03:55] Erich Wenzel: It has been awhile, 

[00:03:55] Jordan Criss: at least. What? November. 

[00:03:58] Erich Wenzel: So it was friendsgiving, so right around Thanksgiving time. 

[00:04:00] Jordan Criss: Yeah. It's been a while, but damn good to be back.

[00:04:03] Erich Wenzel: I know. For real, it's always exciting when you get back on here, cause you never know what, cause we always explore in our own ways and then it kind of comes together in these podcasts that who knows where they go.

[00:04:13] Jordan Criss: Right. I'm in the background though, so 

[00:04:16] Erich Wenzel: you're not just around.

[00:04:19]Jordan Criss: So it's cool. Yeah. All right, cool, man. 

[00:04:22] Writing Progress

[00:04:22] Erich Wenzel: So how's the writing going? Let's see. Let's start there in the film world. 

[00:04:25] So it's going really good. where should I start? So, okay, so I, okay. I texted you, I think the night of, this was a couple of weeks ago, maybe even a month ago at this point, but when I finally finished, yes, you did the pilot script and it was like, Oh my God, I forgot exactly what I said to you, but it was along the lines of like, it was so nice to finally.

[00:04:46] Oh, I remember it was so nice to finally save the document as not draft one three six but to finally save it as. Lions. 

[00:04:56] Lions are zero 

[00:04:58] Jordan Criss: zero like, Oh it's done. Lion zero zero one one zero one. Sorry. it felt so good. It was like this euphoric cause you know. I mean, you know how long I've been working and we talked about it on the podcast.

[00:05:11] Erich Wenzel: It's over a year and a half. Cause I was still in school when I first saw the first, first, first draft. 

[00:05:17] Jordan Criss: Yeah. Yeah. It's just so different. I might send it to you to say, you know, yeah. Anyway, for posterity sake. Yeah. But, yeah, so that felt awesome to finally finish that cause, so much work and like studying and being like, ah, this doesn't work.

[00:05:29] That doesn't work. And you know, you, you figure out, like I would learn new things and then be like, Oh. Shit, I did that wrong. Then they go back and then, you know what I mean? It's always cool. It was a good process. And I still have every draft. So like I went back and read the first one and he compared it to this one and I'm like, Oh wow. You know what I mean? 

[00:05:50] Erich Wenzel: I was about to ask that. Cause it's like one of those things, especially in written form. The longer you wait to put it out there in quotation marks, the more it's like, dude, I've just been spending like a year on this and now this thing is like, there's so much wrong with it.

[00:06:07] Writing is never really 'done'

[00:06:07] Jordan Criss: I mean, it's kind of the danger I guess, in writing because so I say it's done. It's never really done. You know what I mean? If I went back today and read it, I would be like, Oh, I can change this. And then, you know, but then at that point you never get anywhere. You're never finished. You're just always like, there has to be a point where you can say, this is ultimately as good as it's gonna get, you know what I mean? There's always room to get better, but I mean, then you lose the core of the story and it becomes something completely different. So. You have to be able to stop him, but

[00:06:37] Erich Wenzel: I feel like the best way to do it is to say this is as good as it can be right now. That's how I make myself, because otherwise I'll do the same thing. I'll just keep sitting and I'm like, Oh, it could be a little bit better. I'll fix this typo here. Or like, keep going, you know? I'll reread it again. And then as soon as you put it out in the world and you're like, ah, God damn it, there's all those typos or whatever.

[00:06:58] Little things you didn't notice when you were. You know, knee deep in, in, you know, come on now that everybody else sees it and they're going to see that one type and you're like, 

[00:07:06] Screenwriting Contest

[00:07:06] Jordan Criss: yeah, it was, it was funny cause so I thought it was done before, like so before this last last draft, so little context. So I entered into a contest, a screenwriting contest.

[00:07:16] It was like a feature or pilot of a script and entered it. It was like two drafts ago. And I was like, okay, this is good. I think I got it. And I realized at the time when I was submitting it that I like. like, you know, there's like a little voice in the back of my head. I'm like, it's not ready.

[00:07:34] And I'm like, well, I gotta, I gotta start getting, you know, seeing where I met, blah, blah, blah. So what happened was the deadline was like a week. This was. Around the time last year or something like that. Okay. so the deadline was coming up and I was like, I need, I need to end this. I need an ending, you know what I mean?

[00:07:50] For the, for this episode. And I came up with something and I was like doing it and just did it real quick. And I was like, okay, good. It wasn't me cause I like pushed it out and I knew that, but I was kind of rushing to get it. and so as I submitted it, I went back and I was like, okay, I'm going to edit it and change it even though that version is submitted already.

[00:08:11]you know, and they, you know, they did a read of it and the initial reading, they were like, Oh, this is great. It was marketable, blah, blah, blah. I was like, Oh. Like that kind of external validation was nice to get from someone in the field. You know what I mean? 

[00:08:23] Erich Wenzel: Cause you don't, cause you're just kind of grasping at straws absorbing third hand feedback from other writers and things like that and just saying, okay, this is how they look at it. I'm going to try and do it my way, my way. 

[00:08:36] Jordan Criss: And like, I don't know any other screenwriters. You know what I mean? And I mean, that's not very luxurious, you know what I mean? Like how many people sit and read screenings?

[00:08:45] Like, no, go see the movie. You know what I mean? Like 

[00:08:47] Erich Wenzel: most people would think about reading, watching the movie now 

[00:08:49] Jordan Criss: reading the movie, right? So it's like, you know, I can be like, here, read this and tell me what you think. And I'm like, great. Right. You know what I mean? 

[00:08:56] Erich Wenzel: 90% of feedback you get, right. Most people, 

[00:08:59] Jordan Criss: which is fine now, you know, that makes sense and it's understandable.

[00:09:02] But getting feedback from someone who does that. I was like, okay, I'm on the right track. I'm not just like in over my head. and to the point where, so that the, it's called cover fly and it's kind of like a third party. So like say I want to, host a contest and your coverfly. I'll say, here's a contest. Get people to submit to this. And then you were like, here, writers submit your screenplays.

[00:09:26] Erich Wenzel: Basically, the bucket to put everything into so you don't have to build up a platform. 

[00:09:30] Jordan Criss: Right? Right. So, they have like a database of all the scripts and producers can go in and read the scripts and stuff like that, and they rank them.

[00:09:37] And mine was top 10. That one made it to a top 10, and I was like, Oh shit, this is awesome. Fast forward, I didn't make it to the next round of the contest.  The person who won actually is getting their script, their film produced by Bruce Willis and he starring and it Megan Fox starring in it and someone else .  Someone once upon a time in Hollywood, not Brad Pitt or Leo. What is the side? Yeah, I think the person who played Charles Manson and it's like an $18 million budget or something. And I'm like, Oh, that could have been me.

[00:10:14] It's cool. Like I'm happy for the person who won. I'm like, that's awesome. You know what I mean? Like, that's so dope. but anyway, so like I went back and I revamped them like, okay, what do I have to do differently? And then that's when I was like. Like I was going to go fix the ending. Then I kind of fudged up and then like some other parts and then it turned their meat into me just rewriting the entire thing from beginning to end.

[00:10:33] I was like, I'm just going to rewrite this whole script, scene by scene. So I literally went to the beginning, wrote that scene, deleted the one underneath the next scene, deleted it, and went all the way through. To the point where I'm like, it's done. You know what I mean? That took me a couple months 

[00:10:46] Erich Wenzel: yeah to feel like I've done what I could. 

[00:10:48] New writing project

[00:10:48] Jordan Criss: Yeah. It was nice. So, that's done. I kind of put that aside for now. And currently I'm working on a short, and I'm kind of doing that differently in the sense where I have the story, you know what I mean? I know what I want to happen. I know the themes and things like, and things like that.

[00:11:05] but I want to use this as practice. because this isn't something that I'm planning to send a producer or anything like that. 

[00:11:14] Erich Wenzel: Just to hone the craft, 

[00:11:15] Jordan Criss: right? Yeah. Like a passion project, I guess you can call it. So I'm kind of trying to free write it, if that makes sense. Okay. So like I wrote the whole first.

[00:11:23]Erich Wenzel: Is this fiction still?

[00:11:26] Yeah most everything I'll write will be, it's going to be fiction. Yeah. I do want to write biopics at some point. Biopics biopics whatever. 

[00:11:39] Jordan Criss: Like, is that like a, 

[00:11:41] like biographies, biography, documentary style? Like there's, you know, I'm trying to think of someone.

[00:11:47] That would be a dope, like, I don't know if someone wrote a story about Kobe Bryant just, you know, for relevancy or something like that. I'm not necessarily saying that I wouldn't want to write specifically, but something like that. Yeah. Like, I think that'd be really cool. But that would be something I would do.

[00:12:02] Actually. I'm lying. I'm doing that. I'm literally already doing this. it's, so Rachel, who's been on the podcast, I'm writing a story about, kind of. Her life experiences when she was in high school and stuff. that's what I'm actually doing next. but anyway. I literally had to stop. I still, I've, so I have a notebook that I write or yeah, it's a notebook that I write all the ideas I have.

[00:12:29] And then last month or so I went and ranked them from what's most important to like the lions. I was like, I have to finish lions. Then I was like, I want to get a short in there to practice it, and hopefully I can shoot it by the fall. Hopefully that's a little ambitious, but we'll see. and then Rachel's story, and then there's this other pilot I have.

[00:12:47]I had told you it's like a futuristic touch. It, and then there's a film, a feature that I'm going to write about. So I like What does that five, four, or five yeah, five things to work on, which is nice because isn't, I'd never have nothing to work on, you know what I mean? As far as writing goes.

[00:13:04] And then there's like studying and should have to do in between, which will never go away. I did the first draft of the short and that went really well but now I'm like going back and fixing it and stuff like that, but I was trying to just kind of get it out quickly and see what I can come up with without being super anal about like, well this has to tie to this.

[00:13:25] You know what I mean? Just to see where my skill set was. 

[00:13:29] Erich Wenzel: Like how could you organically craft the story without having to like stop

[00:13:33] Dissecting writing or storytelling

[00:13:33] Jordan Criss: right, right. Just to show us, which I'll always revert to the former. I'll always do it that way. Right. Like being really anal about everything. Cause that's just how I am.

[00:13:43] I hate when I like, I don't know if you do this too, but I hate when I'm watching something and I just am like. That doesn't make any sense. You know what I mean? Like, yeah. 

[00:13:49] Erich Wenzel: Where you just poke a hole through it.

[00:13:51] Jordan Criss: Or like when stuff just happens to happen. Yeah. And it's like, cool. I mean, you probably, because of the way you're embedded in it, it changes the entire movie watching experience for you or even TV shows. Yeah. 

[00:14:02] Erich Wenzel: Like, like you can't just watch it, just, just watch it anymore because you've, you have this extra lens that you overlay on top of it now and it's  like the way you enjoy it is by dissecting it, I guess is the best way to put it. 

[00:14:16] Jordan Criss: Literally, I mean, to the point where, you know, I don't like watching certain things if I know that it's not gonna aid in any type of like me getting something new, you know what I mean?

[00:14:30] Or just being like, Oh, that's cool how they did that, or that's cool. Or they told that version of the same story or whatever. Yeah. I don't want to watch it. It's a waste of time. Like when I'm watching a TV show or movie, like I'm kind of studying, you know what I mean? If I really enjoyed it, I'll read the screenplay.

[00:14:44] Go back and watch it again. As I'm reading the screenplay. Wow. And what I want to do at some point, I have to fit that in. I get a script and then rewrite the script. Oh, I'm watching the movie. That's a cool idea. And to try to see how close I am from the movie and then compare it to the script.

[00:15:01] Erich Wenzel: I've heard something similar for writers, so if you want to be like a certain type of writer, you take like the greats or someone you just really admire as a writer and you rewrite their book. Hmm. You know, so you kind of get into their voice by writing. That's what we do. Yeah. So it's like, Oh. I'm like, Ooh.

[00:15:18] I'm like, that's a really cool idea. Yeah. 

[00:15:20] Jordan Criss: That's weird. That's weird. I know. they say to do that with music too. Like for rappers, they're like right in there, like pros, how they 

[00:15:28] Erich Wenzel: do the rhyme scheme, I guess would be the word.

[00:15:31] Jordan Criss: I think Eminem doesn't quote me. I think Eminem said he used it, or maybe it was J. Cole, one of them. One is very prolific. A rapper said they used to take their favorite rappers, rap ramps and like to rewrite them just to see what it looks like. And I'm like, it's weird that that kind of transcends, 

[00:15:49] Erich Wenzel: I mean, again, so, actually in music again, Avicii how he got started 

[00:15:53] Jordan Criss: was that the DJ, 

[00:15:55] Erich Wenzel: the DJ, he would be in his dorm room or wherever he was early on when he was like in his early, early teens or whatever.

[00:16:02] When he got the music software, he would recreate music. On the computer, and then once he ran out of music to recreate that, he didn't lie like that. He really wanted to recreate. He started making his own thing and then that's how it got big. 

[00:16:14] Jordan Criss: Oh, that's cool. 

[00:16:15] Erich Wenzel: So like once he, he like, he scratched his own ears by recreating other people's songs and then after that, and he's like, well, what the fuck do I do now?

[00:16:20] And then it's like, well, I guess I can make my own stuff. Yeah. It's a weird idea, but it's like, Oh, that is kind of genius. Like you just mimic other people, you're comfortable to make your own thing. 

[00:16:31] Jordan Criss: That's kind of what art is, 

[00:16:33] Erich Wenzel: it sounds so stupid symbol that it like.

[00:16:37] It's like, Oh, duh. You know, it's like a forehead facepalm moment. 

[00:16:43] Jordan Criss: There's, there's a quote like that. I'm going to butcher it, but it's something, it was in Aaron Sorkin's masterclass. He said it and he was like, good writers mimic and great writers steal or something like that. I've heard that somebody says something, I'm butchering it, but it's something like that and I'm like, you know, you're kind of right.

[00:17:00] You know what I mean? Like you see a lot of the same stuff over and over again, and. 

[00:17:04] Erich Wenzel: I think Steve jobs said something similar. It's like some people borrow other people's steal outright. You know it's stealing the good ideas and wrapping them into your own thing and just whatever it is, what it is.

[00:17:17] Creating your unique blend

[00:17:17] Jordan Criss: I think you have to turn a point. I mean, you don't want to just obviously completely plagiarize. Oh wow, I really liked that movie. I'm going to go do the same thing. Like you can't do that. But like to, you know, you take what you enjoy. You know, whatever genre is, or I mean, whatever field you're in, just input.

[00:17:36] But no, you take what you enjoy from everything across the spectrum, and you put it in and you put your voice on top of it and it's like this weird, like, like Chipotle bowl. 

[00:17:47] Erich Wenzel: You still hungry? 

[00:17:48] Jordan Criss: Yes. Actually I was going to get something more food, but disregard. 

[00:17:52] We'll 

[00:17:53] Erich Wenzel: Come back to that. 

[00:17:56] Jordan Criss: Yeah. You just kind of like putting it into a melting pot, I guess, and you just kind of mix it and then make it your own.

[00:18:01] Erich Wenzel: It's kind of the way I look at it. It's like you. You take what you enjoy about other people and either your respective field or people outside of your thing, and you say, Ooh, that's a cool idea. And then you take the theme and then twist it and say, okay, cool. You know, cause I've heard some people say like, you know, say like, just to throw a big name out there, Joe Rogan does a podcast with somebody.

[00:18:23] Some people are like, Oh, well I guess I don't need to interview that person because Joe Rogan already did that. And my counter argument would be that I was like, no. Like there's way more depth to a person than just one conversation. You know, you can still have that conversation be whatever it is, and then you could still bring your own unique twist and viewpoint to that person to kind of see what else you can pull out of them. 

[00:18:45] Jordan Criss: Right. You know, I think that's, I'm surprised people would say that. I feel like I know me too. That would make me want to just to see where your conversation differs and what, like what differences you bring out of them. Cause like I assume Joe Rogan, I mean, I'm sorry. He's great, I don't know much about the guy other than he's done a lot, from like fear factor to know. but like, I'm sure at some point he doesn't really click with certain people. He brings on, like, I would assume that's a thing, you know what I mean? They might get awkward and then it's like, all right, well, let's just do the podcast.

[00:19:16] They do it and then it's like, alright, thanks for coming. And then it's like, no. Yeah. 

[00:19:19] Erich Wenzel: There's a time slot and there's just, some words are spoken, but there's not really any like rapport, and that's that assumption. I don't know. It's like anything else. You, some conversations are easy. Some conversations are difficult. Yeah, it's, it depends on how much you resonate. 

[00:19:34] Jordan Criss: I feel like, you know, running a podcast, you can be like, well, I can get something. What if you click with someone who did it and then the conversation is completely different or more. You know, it goes beyond surface level. Yeah. Like, 

[00:19:44] Erich Wenzel: I mean, I, you know me, there's no stone unturned. Like, just because you had a conversation over here, it doesn't like, I try really hard to, I mean, again, kind of go into craft if I try to look at it and be like, okay, maybe. You've had this conversation before and we can have talking points about that thing, but I like to try really hard to try and let each conversation stand on its own accord, not necessarily having to pull from other sources in any way.

[00:20:11] Like it shouldn't be like, Oh yeah, I heard this person in this conversation and so we're going to pick it up right where that left off unless there's something to do there. But like for the most part, it's, you should let whatever that organic conversation be, what it would be without having to use prior substance to make it worth it. Right. 

[00:20:29] I guess that's my philosophical sense. I feel like that's. What you should do. Yeah. So I totally get that. I guess one of the things I would ask you here is like, so you're doing all of this work to understand and hone the craft of screenwriting, and I'm using craft really specifically because of the way you're looking at it.

[00:20:47] You know, it's like you're being an elite athlete type, but doing it in writing in a specific, very specific form of writing. 

[00:20:53] What do you say to someone who thinks you're wasting your time?

[00:20:53] Yeah. what would you say to someone who's like, what the fuck, dude? Why are you wasting and wasting air quotes around that? Because for the average person, they're going to say, you're just doing this and spinning your wheels.

[00:21:08] What are you getting out of it? 

[00:21:10] Jordan Criss: It's fulfilling like. So going back to when I finished I, that's a drug completely blunt, like I haven't felt that good fulfillment like fall, you know what I mean? Like I haven't felt 

[00:21:28] Erich Wenzel: good about it. You had to text me.

[00:21:29] Jordan Criss: Yeah, we're done. Yeah. It was like a crazy level of accomplishment and I was like.

[00:21:36] Wow, that's awesome. And like, you know, and then afterwards, like looking back from where you started and being like, like, I mean, it wasn't that long ago when I was like, I don't even know really what screenwriting is. And then getting to the point where I'm like, yeah. I'm actually really one happy about it.

[00:21:51] And two, if I envisioned it and like I watched that, like if it was created, I had nothing to do with it. Now watch it. I'd be like, I'd really enjoy that. And then knowing how picky I am and maybe I'm a little biased. Well, yeah, yeah. But you know, it felt so good. So that feeling alone, I will never stop 

[00:22:10] Erich Wenzel: One I love it two. I feel like you have to be. That's like a certain level of neurotic for whatever the thing is that you're doing, right? Like I spend a lot of time thinking about elite performers across the board. And, and when you think about those kinds of people, right? They're so single-mindedly focused they're kind of not the kind of person you'd want to have around the dinner table or maybe go grab a beer with because all they want to talk about is that thing. Right? 

[00:22:37] And then you also need that to some degree to be good at just about anything. Like it's like anything you do gets shaped and molded to be able to. Make itself useful for whatever is the thing that you're doing. You know, cause I did the same thing. Maybe you don't hear me talk about it, but I do the same thing about podcasts and everything I'm doing, every little nugget I'm hearing, it gets, you know, shaped and molded to be put through this lens of Feeding Curiosity in whatever format I choose.

[00:23:07] And so it's the same for writing for you.

[00:23:10] Jordan Criss: I was going to say it's, it was funny cause I was actually talking about this the other day where I was like, I can be so annoying. Like, because I literally could talk about screenwriting and films. Not specifically cause, okay. Screenwriting is films.

[00:23:27] So I can talk about the world of films all day. And then if you want to go deeper screenwriting, but not like I haven't to this day maybe one person. Have I met who's been like, I love screenplays like this because it's not a thing. Like, it's not that interesting. You know what I mean? It's not like I went to this dope concert or I went to this art show.

[00:23:51] It's like, no, dude, I sat at home for six hours and just looked at my computer screen who is sick. Like, no, no one, no one wants to talk about that for more than like 10 minutes. So I try to filter it and be like, well yeah, I'm doing this. That's really cool. And then I stop. 

[00:24:06] Erich Wenzel: You leave it there. You're just like, alright. 

[00:24:09] Jordan Criss: Yeah. Or like, you know, you can talk about failing. That's a little more interesting. Like, you know, with the Oscar season just passing, that was like a really cool time for me cause I'm like, I can talk about this stuff and it's really relevant so it's not forced at all. 

[00:24:19] Erich Wenzel: And no one's going to be like, Oh my God, here he goes again 

[00:24:23] Jordan Criss: because it's on the forefront of everyone's mind.

[00:24:25] What type of writer is Jordan?

[00:24:25]Yeah, it's, it's if you're obsessed and passionate about something like truly it's. I feel like it's always on your mind, even if it's like, you know, in the background. But like for example, like whenever I'm out doing something, wherever, dialogue heavy, like that's kind of how I center my scripts.

[00:24:44] Like I loved the diet. Like when I'm writing the dialogue is when, yeah. Like the pros are cool. The reason I, a little more background, the reason I don't write books is because I'm not as good as a prose writer. Versus dialogue, 

[00:24:59] the scene description and things like that. 

[00:25:01] So it's nice for screenplays cause you can say interior, bedroom, dark, musty, and then get to talk to him, whatever.

[00:25:10] I mean, that's one example, 

[00:25:11] Erich Wenzel: but I'll leave the set designers to figure that out 

[00:25:15] Jordan Criss: because you don't want to be too specific. And then like, you can't feel like, you know, in books like special effects or novels, how they describe things or they'll say like, An old sad building, what does that look like?

[00:25:27] Yeah. You know what I mean? 

[00:25:29] Erich Wenzel: Or they describe a character. 

[00:25:30] Jordan Criss: Good luck. And it's like, I mean, it does, when you're reading it, it helps, but when the director comes in and they're like, okay, so they're building a set or whatever, that doesn't necessarily translate. Yeah. I do that a little bit because I like that it adds to the poetry of it and gives it a little more than like, I can't be boring, you know, because at some point people do have to read it and like need to table a reason to act it or read it.

[00:25:58] If it's just boring, just like a room. It's kind of like, huh, God, let's go. You're like, can we get over this? so there's like a middle ground, but, Like those long, you know, pros, heavy descriptions where they're describing the smell of the flower and stuff like that. And I'm not the best at that. Like someone like Joe might be probably better at that, you know?

[00:26:18] And I wouldn't say so, 

[00:26:18] Erich Wenzel: or Mike even, a little bit. Not much. If you can convince him to kind of get in the mode, like he's probably more of a better, like. If you give them the idea like here's like the first draft, he'll be able to massage it into something with more flavor and really that's color.

[00:26:34] Yeah, he's done that for some of the stuff that I've written before where it's like once he has like the outline of it, he's like, then he like his creative juices go and then he is able to kind of add more like flavor and zest to it. It's really interesting. It's like, wow. Where like where is that coming from?

[00:26:49] You know, more often than not. 

[00:26:54] Jordan Criss: That's interesting. I didn't know that. That's really cool. 

[00:26:57] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, it's interesting. It's one of those unique talents that I don't know how you really exercise that thing. Like, I don't know how you get good at just adding color to something. 

[00:27:06] Jordan Criss: You know? It helps if you read a lot.

[00:27:08] Yeah, sure. 

[00:27:09] Erich Wenzel: I mean, I've done, I have noticed that in myself where I can just pull words out and just be like, well, I don't know where I knew that.

[00:27:16]Jordan Criss: You don't even know what the word means or whatever. It's like what is that? 

[00:27:22] Erich Wenzel: Or you just say it too. It's like, I'm like, why am I saying big words or I'll like drop into technical speak when I'm working in the lab and stuff and I'm like, Oh my God,

[00:27:30]Jordan Criss: I know these things.

[00:27:31] Erich Wenzel: I just dropped a whole bunch of scientific sounding words, dear Lord 

[00:27:34] Jordan Criss: Jesus. You were explaining your trip when we're at honey butter and I'm like, I have no idea what you're talking about. Even 

[00:27:40] Erich Wenzel: I registered it after like you guys had left and I'm like. I got a lot of blank looks after that. Probably should have clarified a little bit more.

[00:27:50] Jordan Criss: Everyone was just like, yeah, that's so awesome. I wish I knew what you were talking about, but I don't, but cool. 

[00:27:55] Erich Wenzel: I spent a whole week just around it. So it's like I gotta just get it out. But I also don't know how to bring it down to a couple levels cause I'm so immersed. 

[00:28:04] Toning down expert speak

[00:28:04] Jordan Criss: And it's, it's actually interesting when like, so when you're in a week at the gym, earlier we talked, I mentioned like what an expert is, quote unquote expert.

[00:28:12] But, Like what an expert is when you know how much you don't know about something. Yeah. But then in that same vein, like when you're speaking to people you like, you might forget that. They don't necessarily know that. They say like, this is like, Oh, this is my common speech when I'm at work and you are gone for a week around work, and then you come back and you're like, ah, no, you guys should know this.

[00:28:30] So, you know what I mean? Like, it's cool. It's cool. Like the same thing talking about films, which I will say actually a lot of people know more. Then they might think they do, but then I expected films like audiences are smart. Like they know what works and what doesn't work. Even if they don't know the technical term or why it doesn't work.

[00:28:53] Erich Wenzel: People aren't stupid. Like you can't, you can't expect that to show them something and be like, you got it. Or like hand feed it to them. Like they want to work and work is the wrong word. But just the first word that came up. 

[00:29:06] Jordan Criss: But, no, no, I think that's right. I mean, you want to, you want something that makes you think a little bit, you know what I mean?

[00:29:11] Like you don't want everything just laid out. what's it called? On the nose, you know what I mean? Just like, here it is, like, come on, like, you know, put something in the subtext or something like that, which is why I have beef. I don't even know what studio this is for. I guess. I've been in Lucas films.

[00:29:29] Star Wars Discussion

[00:29:29] I'm going to sit on you, not you, but I like star Wars and star Wars. Yeah, I know you love it. And I love it for a lot of reasons too, but the first three, God, Jesus, it's just, it was like, it was, there were movies for the sake of making a movie to get to the point of like, we want to show you Darth Vader's past.

[00:29:52] Yeah. Cool cause he was dope. You know what I mean? Like when he first came on screen in the originals, it was awesome. You know what I mean? It was really cool. Even though this had like, you know, little issues like returning the Jedi. To me it was the worst out of those three, probably like Ewoks. 

[00:30:08] Erich Wenzel: Teddy bears, bro.

[00:30:08] Jordan Criss: They were cute bro. And then now what the hell? I just built a bear, let's go. But whatever. Not here to shit on that point is, like people knew that like when the first, when the second trilogy. Being the pro, the prequels pre-call. So confusing. I know episode one through three, when those came out, people knew that there was something wrong with them.

[00:30:32] You know what I mean? Even though there was this huge, it was a, I mean, multimillion dollar if not billion dollar, and I don't know how much money they bring in, but multimillion dollar industry at the least. 

[00:30:42] Erich Wenzel: Okay what I can say, cause I read, Robert Iger, who is the CEO of Disney for 15 years, he just retired.

[00:30:49]star Wars as a brand was not as big as Pixar, but could be right at the time that Disney bought. Star Wars. 

[00:30:58] Jordan Criss: Oh, really? 

[00:30:59] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. So it was a big brand, but not as big as Pixar at the time. Right. So not something that, you know, no small potato, no Pixar. So when it takes that for whatever it is, I don't know any numbers or anything like that, but right off the top of my head, it's still big in any way.

[00:31:15] But, Since the end of the ninth you know, movie, I have become a lot more critical of Star Wars as a whole. So you know how much I do enjoy the stories. Honestly, a lot of my enjoyment and love for Star Wars has a lot less to do with the movies than it does with the overall. Like. The world building that Star Wars created.

[00:31:36] I enjoy Star Wars for the comic books. I enjoy star Wars for the side novels that are now no longer considered part of the Canon stories. And just kind of the philosophical questions, you know, the, the, what is the Force, like how do people use the Force, you know, that struggle between good and evil and then, you know, the gray side and things like that.

[00:31:57] Cause we were, we weren't talking about some of this stuff. With Star Wars being like the archetypal story and stuff like that. And it really is like, it's what I find more interesting about it is that it combined a lot of stuff from like Japanese culture and the Eastern mythology, broadly speaking, and then added in, you know, the hero's journey of like Western mythology.

[00:32:20] Into a modern format for audiences to get, you know, transported to a galaxy far, far, far away. That's what I find more interesting about it. You know, dissecting the films and saying if it was good or bad or otherwise, it's like, sure, go for it. You know? But I still love Darth Maul and the fight scenes as you know.

[00:32:38] Right. Like those things, like those moments like that, you hear that song when Darth Maul shows up and he's fighting OB one and I just don't remember, we were down here in his basement. We were like. In high school we turn on that music and someone would get their fingers hit and then it really went down.

[00:32:56] Right. So we're playing like that, 

[00:33:01] Jordan Criss: dude. I mean, they, I'll give them credit. They, I mean, it's immensely impressive. 

[00:33:07] Erich Wenzel: What I mean for as long as it's been around 

[00:33:09] Jordan Criss: And it's, I mean, it's just dope. Like it's just bad ass. Like when you're, who didn't want to be a Jetta at one point. Right. You know what I mean? I did. I mean, like, .

[00:33:19] Everyone has a niche

[00:33:19] Erich Wenzel: I can't imagine, like, honestly, it's been the strangest thing ever where it was like this nerdy thing and all of a sudden he just went, nah, it's just everybody thing now, 

[00:33:27] Jordan Criss: dude. Every, it's like cool to be a nerd. And I remember when I used to like, I mean, I'm not saying I was the only one, but when I used to like anime, right?

[00:33:35] And I'm with the hooks, so nerdy and now everyone likes handyman, 

[00:33:38] Erich Wenzel: right? I mean, I don't, I don't know when it fucking changed. I remember just being like, yeah, I'm over here. I read books all the time. Yeah, I like science. And all of a sudden it's like, yeah, bro. Like now it's like, you like star Wars. I like star Wars too.

[00:33:51] And then they like to have muscle shirts now with Star Wars memes on them. Basically. It's like Swole Wars and stuff. I'm like, yeah, I'm like, what happened 

[00:33:59] Jordan Criss: at the school? Like, and I was cool to nerd out about stuff and I like that 

[00:34:03] Erich Wenzel: everyone has a niche now. Like you can find a home. Wherever you want it. You know, we talk about how some of this stuff is like not inclusive a lot of times, but it feels like some of these things, it makes more inclusiveness to some degree because you can find someone, you know, even if they're halfway across the world, who thinks like 

[00:34:20] Jordan Criss: you.

[00:34:21] Yeah. You know, it's the same thing. 

[00:34:23] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. Like you were saying, not a lot of people like the screenplay, you just haven't found. That group yet that either somewhere in Chicago or whatever, you know, for, you find a closed Facebook group and it's 

[00:34:34] Jordan Criss: like, I'm in.

[00:34:35]Erich Wenzel: And so of course I had a feeling you would be. 

[00:34:37] Immerse yourself in the cultures you want to be a participant in

[00:34:37] Jordan Criss: Yeah. So like I say that, with the understanding that there is, I'm just not in the right place, which is part of the reason why I'm like, I need to be in the city because there's, you know, people with those kinds of aspirations are typically.

[00:34:53] You know, they live in urban areas. You know what I mean? And not that people don't live in suburban areas, but it's, you know, usually people come to the suburbs and they're like, you know, just living. Yeah. 

[00:35:05] Erich Wenzel: You got to go where your people are 

[00:35:07] Jordan Criss: and where the work is. You know what I mean? That's like in the city, that's where all the work is, right? So that's where the. 

[00:35:12] Erich Wenzel: And it's like, it's like the same thing too. Like if you want to be into technology, you gotta go to Silicon Valley or wherever the tech areas are. If you want to be a writer, you go, you go to Holly, like, right. Or if you want to be a reporter, you go to where the big studios are, like NBC or whatever.

[00:35:27] Like pick your studio you really like, or whatever. You kind of just have to immerse yourself in those groups and those cultures and how those people see the world to some degree. Because it's almost the same way. It's like you can only go so far on your own, but you also need someone, you need other people around you, guiding you and molding your thing that you trust that aren't just gonna, you know, blow smoke up your butt.

[00:35:51] Jordan Criss: I think that's really, really important. I can't stress that enough because there's times that I feel like a vegan in a steak house where it's really good, but like you just feel, not that you're out of place, but you just feel like. Everyone's looking at you like, why, what's on your plate right now?

[00:36:10] You know what I mean? And it's cool. There's nothing wrong with that, but it definitely helps to have, I don't know if like-minded is the right phrase, but people who are doing the same thing to kind of keep me on track, even if it's not direct. Yeah. Like you can just talk to me like, yeah, I'm working on this.

[00:36:24] And that makes you, that drives you to do something similar. Yeah. where in, you know, we're lucky in the sense that we have a lot of people that we're really close with. Who may not be doing the same thing, but who are doing similar things. So that still can keep you. Yeah. 

[00:36:41] A community that pushes everyone forward 

[00:36:41] Erich Wenzel: I mean, we have, honestly, a solid six to eight probably more people that we could reach out to at any point and be like, yo, I need a little bit extra to keep me going right now.

[00:36:51] You know? Like, Hey, I just need you to look this thing over. Or Hey, it's kinda fricking hard right now. I don't know if I want to keep doing this. And you know each, you know. Shout out to Nate. Shout out to Brit. You know, all those people who are doing their own thing are like a little fuel in the fire saying like, Hey, if they can keep going, why can't I?

[00:37:08] Jordan Criss: Yeah. It's so cool. 

[00:37:11] Erich Wenzel: It's a weird thing, man, because like, I don't know, maybe when we were like first in high school and stuff, it felt like there was like that like zero sum game where it's like other people were doing their own thing. You'd be like, Oh, like why are they out there? They're not going to make it, you know, that starving artist mentality of like everyone's trying to climb above each other. You know, there's not enough to go around and it's like table scraps or whatever, but I don't know. It really feels different like you can highlight someone else and be like, yo, look at this person doing their dope thing. They're going to be big one day. Just keep it, you know, keep an eye out, you know?

[00:37:44] And then all of a sudden it's like you can push each other up more. I don't know. It's, it seems new. It seems like a new thing with the internet to be able to allow individuals to get like, you don't need it. You know, I don't know who saw people before, maybe news companies or whatever to get recognition.

[00:38:04] Like why can't we just all recognize someone's doing something worth following?

[00:38:09] Jordan Criss: It's a weird mindset. and I wonder if like, like a psychologist, like Joe maybe would be able to comment on like, why that is. But it is like, I've always thought that people who you don't. How do you word it? So like you have, well, you have like your, your, your, your, your group, you know what I mean?

[00:38:31] Like your core friends, like whatever. And like support runs through that. Or it said, you know, we're lucky enough that it does, some people, maybe not, but usually that's like your support group. But then like, yeah, people who know you well. Yeah, maybe not as much as that, but like, well, like you went to the same school as them since you were X years old.

[00:38:49] Right. So if you didn't move around and stuff like that, I feel like those people, not all the time, but sometimes are the ones who kind of, they might be like, Oh, that's so cool that you're doing that, but then they don't necessarily want to see you go as far as it could go, you know? And that might be a little cynical.

[00:39:11]but in that regard, I've always thought that if you went somewhere new, so say like you moved across the country to New York or wherever, California, like the people you meet there might, you know, that you make relationships with that you haven't known for so long actually want more for you than the people who you've grew up with.

[00:39:29] If that makes sense. 

[00:39:30] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. I can see that. Because they don't have baggage as to like who they thought you were. Right. You know, and when you change in some way or any way, they're like, Oh, who's, who does he think he is now? Right. 

[00:39:46] Jordan Criss: I remember you in second grade

[00:39:50] There's a lot of people that are like that where they, they, they get like.

[00:39:54] Erich Wenzel: Wow. Who do you think you are? You know, staying in your lane? I love when people say that to me, cause fuck that on so many levels. 

[00:40:00] People tell me, it's just like, you know, when they tell other people to stay in their lane, it's like, what lane are we supposed to be in? Like I don't like, I have a right to be wherever the hell I am just as much as you do.

[00:40:13] How do you know you can do something you've never done before?

[00:40:13] You know? It's like, I don't know, changing jobs, but lately it's kind of like the idea of how do you know you can do something you've never done before. 

[00:40:21] Jordan Criss: Unless you do it 

[00:40:23] Erich Wenzel: Tada! It sounds again, really stupid, but it's like you have to just jump into something to figure out if you can do it and congratulations.

[00:40:33] You're gonna suck for about the first month or more, probably six. Realistic, probably suck for six months until you kind of grow your sea legs and you're like, okay, I got this. Right. And then after that, then you came to start like tuning the knobs and be like, alright, these are the little efficiencies I got out of this.

[00:40:47] Or you develop the patterns basically. To me, everything kind of comes down to patterns where it's like 

[00:40:52] Jordan Criss: habits and patterns 

[00:40:53] Erich Wenzel: where you kind of have to do something for long enough to kind of start seeing. How the, the system itself or whatever be it a writing a screenplay or, you know, creating the arc of a conversation, you can start pulling on the threads and guiding it more rather than just letting it unfold because you don't know where it's going.

[00:41:13] You can kind of control things a little bit better, or at least see them coming before they, before they happen. And it's like anything else, right? It's like going to the gym, like we were just talking earlier today where it's like, okay. You know, you can be going to the gym, me, and you've been doing it for like five years consistently at this point.

[00:41:28] And then we're still, to this day, we make little tweaks just at the gym. You gave me a point around deadlifts, like, Hey, try to sit down a little bit more and like keep your chest up and all of a sudden, Oh yeah, that's, it feels different, right? I mean, dead lifting for five years.

[00:41:40] Like, you know, never ending. 

[00:41:44] Don't wait for the perfect moment

[00:41:44] Jordan Criss: Yeah. I mean, like, I mean, it goes back to the script. It's never finished because you're always learning new things. With that. You have to know when it's like, okay, time to move on. You know what I mean? There's like, no, no more growth will come from this 

[00:41:58] Erich Wenzel: because then you're just stagnating. Or like pretending like the perfect moment to be ready. Right. Like I'll do it when it's like a Kodak moment. Fuck that. 

[00:42:06] Jordan Criss: Yeah. That happens a lot with musicians, man. There is a. The biggest example I can think of is a, you might not hurt. He's not really that famous. He is and he isn't. But, Jay electronica is his name and this dude, he's come out with like a handful of songs and it was just like, Oh, this dude is amazing.

[00:42:21] You know what I mean? And he was supposed to release an album and this was like 2011, and it's now 2020. And he's like, Hey, albums coming out. And I'm like, okay, I'll, I'm not gonna hold my breath, you know what I mean? 

[00:42:30] Erich Wenzel: You waited too long, bro. 

[00:42:31] Jordan Criss: But, you know, that's me, the fan. But then. The artist's may is like, he probably just wasn't content and he probably assumption, but he might've just got stuck in his own head where he's like, it's not good enough I've got to redo this.

[00:42:44] The curse of past success?

[00:42:44] Erich Wenzel: so what would you say about the paradox of success. Cause sometimes when you, when you say you put out a teaser and that fucking blows up or whatever, and then now that person has to live up to whatever perception now that the public has about your quality of thing, right. So it makes you second guess yourself, because when you're anonymous or borderline anonymous, it makes it so much easier just to be like, well, I'm gonna put it out there and then, you know, I'm going to get three views.

[00:43:10] But that's right. No, I don't care. Because you get more fulfilled. Like I'd asked you before. It's like you get more fulfillment out of doing the thing than actually getting the external feedback. Right whatever that is. But it's really hard to compartmentalize that once you reach a certain threshold.

[00:43:23] Jordan Criss: Yeah. I think you have to keep, you have to remember why you started the, excuse me, the mindset you had when you started. You don't want to lose. You don't want to lose what and who you're doing it for. Cause. Yeah. I mean that's, that's unavoidable. If you reach a certain level of success with anything, people are going to hold you to a standard.

[00:43:45] You know what I mean? Like, 

[00:43:47] Erich Wenzel: I mean, just look at Brady being a really good example of 

[00:43:50] Jordan Criss: that eminem. I feel like I'm an Eminem a big case that he is someone who, I don't think he'll ever be able to do anything right at this point because he's, 

[00:43:57] Erich Wenzel: he's so prolific. He'll be someone that they'll make the docu series about when we're old. 

[00:44:02] Jordan Criss: I think his celebrity will be the death of his career in a sense. It's not, nah, that's not me saying his career is ending or like, not still successful, but in the sense where, I mean, he has all these, you know, people critique so hard and they're like, Oh, we want the old Eminem. But then you tried to do that and they're like, well, he's still talking about the same stuff he talked about when he was 20.

[00:44:23] He's a grown man. And I'm like, and then he tried to do something new and they'll go, this is corny. I'm like, what do you want from him? You know what I mean? 

[00:44:28] There's a really good take on that from Lincoln park. So, you know, a lot of people really loved early Lincoln park with hybrid theory,  and 

[00:44:36] Erich Wenzel: [00:44:36] the minutes and midnight and stuff like that.

[00:44:39] Those first two, three albums, Metora was another big one. and they put up a commentary, I think it was right before Chester had unfortunately passed away. And. He'd said, you know, like, guys, we've been doing this since we were in our early twenties, you know, and who we were in our twenties. That's what we wrote about.

[00:44:54] We wrote about the things that were on our mind and that came with a lot of pain and, you know, angsty and whatever it was that we, you know, that screaming raps, hybrid vocals. Right, right. And then as they get older, you know, it's like they become dads, they chill out a little bit. Like it's just a whole different mindset.

[00:45:10] And so their style and tone and what they're experimenting with has to change along with it. And they were using it as an exploration. You know, Lincoln park was a vehicle for them to explore the world or explore their journey through life, not to be beholden to the fans of whatever they loved. The music itself falls into this trap a lot, I think where they have to, they pay lip service to the fans, like the original tracks, like a lot of the older rockers like Ozzy Osborne and those people, they still played just like their old albums. They've not really come out with new stuff and I don't know me, you know, maybe they do love that, but.

[00:45:45] Continuing to explore new territory

[00:45:45] I don't know if I could ever do something like that where it's just like you put your greatest hits on repeat and then that's all you ever get to play with. 

[00:45:50] Jordan Criss: I want to get old. I mean, I feel sorry for the people who had like one song blow up that, okay. I say I feel sorry, but like, yeah, but they still, you know, I don't really feel sorry cause I made it right, but like if you have to play that one hit.

[00:46:06]every time you perform, and if you're on a tour and you're performing, you have to end with that one and 100 shows out of the year and you have to perform that song every time. By the fifth time I do it, I'm going to be like, fuck, I don't want to do this anymore. 95 times 

[00:46:19] Erich Wenzel: stuck with that same person, that fan who's like, I love your song .

[00:46:23] Jordan Criss: You're like, yeah, me too. 

[00:46:26] Erich Wenzel: That's how you become cynical, because if you don't have novelty, you're just going to be like, dude. Like, can we talk about my interests, like my new thing that I'm working on, like that's more interesting to me. Yeah. You know, that's another thing that I try to do when podcasts, it's like, okay, I know they talk about this thing all the time, so let's go like over here.

[00:46:42] The thing they don't talk about, like I always ask, I always ask that to people if they've been on previous intern interviews, I'm like, Hey, is there any topics that you don't normally get to talk about that you've been wanting to talk about right. 

[00:46:50] Jordan Criss: That's cool. That's a good question because I'd be like, Oh, that's awesome.

[00:46:54] I can, yeah, they can steer the conversation a little bit. Yeah. 

[00:46:57] Erich Wenzel: Because it's like, it allows them to explore their whatever they're working on and be like, all right, let's, let's talk about that thing because there is this cause everyone has always got more bubbling than what it is that they get recognized for.

[00:47:07] Jordan Criss: You know, it's almost like you're bringing value to the person, not the craft or a skill or whatever. You know what I mean? It's like, well that's cool that you do that, but like. I know there's more here, you know? Tell me about yourself almost. 

[00:47:18] There is a simple solution to success

[00:47:18] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, it is very similar to that. So it's, I dunno, it's, it's an interesting, you know, there's always, there's all this inner inner connection between fame and success.

[00:47:27] And I dunno, continuing to be a beginner being able to not look at what was successful and be like, alright, there's the formula. That's what this guy says. Right? Cause I feel like in this age, like that's what everyone tries to do is like, all right, you just do these 10 things, then you'll be successful and that's a bunch of horseshit.

[00:47:48] Jordan Criss: To have some sort of foundation. So I get it. But, to a certain extent, rules are made to be broken. You want to see innovation, you want to see someone do something that you're like, wow, that was cool. and I think that's. I think that is what creativity is. Where even if you're doing something that is essentially creative.

[00:48:09]To keep it at home, let's say. You know what I mean? Let's say, you know someone's an aspiring screenwriter and there are certain things they're supposed to do and points you're supposed to, you have that story structure and all that, and that's cool.

[00:48:20] And you have to know it. You have to know what that is. You know what I mean? But at the same time as a fan watching something, I want to see your take on that. And that's when it becomes creative cause you can, anyone can just regurgitate the same story. 

[00:48:36] Erich Wenzel: you could be the textbook version of anything.

[00:48:38] Right. It doesn't take skill to be a textbook.  And like that's cool not to, you know, just 

[00:48:44] Jordan Criss: textbook writers is definitely a skill. It's hard. It's a lot of pages.

[00:48:53] But a perfect example actually. Cause if I don't consider that creativity, you know what I mean? 

[00:48:59]Erich Wenzel: It's like data, like absorbing information and cataloging. Yeah. 

[00:49:03] Jordan Criss: You know, it's a skill in itself. It's not 

[00:49:07] Erich Wenzel: a creative skill. It's like you're taking what's available and just kind of parsing it together in a neat package.

[00:49:12] Jordan Criss: Right. And so, you know, that is what it is. It's not bad or good or bad. That's just what it is. But to be truly creative at something, I feel like it's taking what is known and one, putting your spin and your voice into it, but then making it different to then that's the new standard where people can look at and be like, yeah.

[00:49:28] Jordan's Process to Pick a movie in the Theatre 

[00:49:28] Oh, I wanted to do something like that. You know what I mean? So like something like 1917. have you seen it? 

[00:49:33] Erich Wenzel: I have not seen that. I got to see it. When we, when I went to see just mercy, it was a toss up between those two. 

[00:49:39] Jordan Criss: I haven't seen Just Mercy. I didn't need to see that really good. 

[00:49:43] Erich Wenzel: Both movies, like I knew, like both of them were really good and I was kind of like, I couldn't, like, honestly, I knew that you'd said it was really good, but Just Mercy was just, I don't know.

[00:49:52] It called my name for whatever reason, 

[00:49:54] Jordan Criss: which makes sense. I can give a little so, okay. So when I go to the movies, I'm just giving you how I think, cause I watch a lot of stuff at home too. When I go to the theater to watch something, I'd try to watch something that would, the theater itself, what impact the movie and like raise it another level.

[00:50:15] So I knew something like 1917 with the sound and you know, stuff like that would give it another level versus, you know, let me think. maybe something like knives out or just mercy. I dunno if you've heard of knives. I've heard of it, yeah. 

[00:50:29] Erich Wenzel: It's kind of like a clue 

[00:50:31] Jordan Criss: who done it, but something like that.

[00:50:34] And I'm like, I can watch that at home. And it wouldn't necessarily, right. Like I do, I do think theaters. I'm scared cause I think it's a dying industry and I really, really don't want to ever. See that realized cause I love going to the movies. You know what I mean? 

[00:50:49] Erich Wenzel: It's something to do still, but  if you're going to be really honest Netflix is crowding into that market, right?

[00:50:55] Like Netflix is, gets people to go home and all they gotta do is hit a button on their smart TV. Now it says Netflix and you got an entire library of movies 

[00:51:04] Jordan Criss:  and dude even now. Like YouTube, like you can watch movies that are just out of the theater or even like in that they're done by him on YouTube. and that's for the, you can, so I did that with Jojo rabbit and tickets to the, you know, AMC, it's like $18 a ticket. I bought Jojo rabbit for, I think 15 bucks. Sounds about right. Yeah. 

[00:51:24] 14.99 is usually an average from like. 

[00:51:27] Man, they're making it really hard. You know what I mean? Cause like 

[00:51:30] Erich Wenzel: you gotta buy two, right? Cause like movies are a date night thing. 

[00:51:34] Jordan Criss: I mean I went to a handful of movies on my own, but for the most part you go with someone if not one person. 

[00:51:41] Erich Wenzel: Normally it's like a thing, Hey we're going to go grab some food and go watch a movie. 

[00:51:45] Jordan Criss: Yeah. Why not? So that industry needs to be revitalized a little bit.

[00:51:49] 4DX Movie Theatre

[00:51:49] Erich Wenzel: So there are some innovative things happening. So there's new theaters being built.

[00:51:54] Jordan Criss: Here's the Wenzel that will come in.

[00:52:02] Erich Wenzel: Of course I know this, right? 

[00:52:04] Jordan Criss: Yeah. Dude. This whole new shit with movies. 

[00:52:07] Erich Wenzel: Weird as hell. I don't know why I know this, but I know it. So it's like beyond IMX, right? So I actually got the bigger screen. It's got the surround sound. So there's a theater that's got screens on three, the three walls. So it's the sides, the front, and then the ceiling.

[00:52:22] So it's like a three, like a, you're inside the film kind of thing. and then, so that's just the normal experience. There's a, like a tier above that that adds like wind. So like 

[00:52:33] Jordan Criss: something like four D? 

[00:52:35] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, it's like a four D theater or something. And so it's got like wind and you like to sit in this seat that's got like a rail that comes down.

[00:52:41] Like you're fricking a rollercoaster, but it moves like so when you're in a car, chase is like, you feel like you're shifting in your seat. And then there's wind, there's smells too. And then it's like you, you can like feel things going past you and like it's just, it's wild. So 

[00:52:57] Jordan Criss: that's out now. Like there's 

[00:52:58] Erich Wenzel: some of them, there's like theaters, I don't know if there's any around us, but that was at the CES of this year.

[00:53:05] They kind of had a little boost of it and stuff like that. And so it's starting to get implemented. So wherever they have IMAX, they'll probably start seeing these partnering up. And having maybe one or two small theaters of them, but still interesting experience, immersion type stuff, you know. 

[00:53:21] Jordan Criss: So I would want to try that out. I don't know how I feel about that. 

[00:53:24] Erich Wenzel: I don't think it will be applicable to every movie, but I can see it being interesting. Oh, there's also a water spray too. So like 

[00:53:30] Jordan Criss: I was literally thinking, I'm like, if someone sprayed me, I would be pissed.I'm just saying if some dudes just like, get the fuck out of my face, like that's why I was like, dude, I don't know if I'm going to like 

[00:53:45] Erich Wenzel: this, but can you imagine though? Like you do that and it's like, you know. There's a thriller scene where someone gets stabbed in the blood's spray. 

[00:53:52] Jordan Criss: Boom. Yeah. I dunno. I don't know, but I want to try it. I can't comment on it cause I haven't, but I'm skeptical and I can't imagine that being any cheaper. No, it would be more, yeah, obviously. Yeah. And we're casual. Most, most people who watch movies are casual and they're not like, you know, I got it. They're like, no, I just want to see the movie. And like, So like, you know, tickets are already crazy. I mean, he can go to some theaters and like, I know they have deals and matinee and stuff like that, but, 

[00:54:21]Erich Wenzel: I feel like Tuesday nights are usually cheap. Days are Monday 

[00:54:23] Jordan Criss: and it's like $5 two days at AMC, something like that. This is great, but I mean, typically when you see a movie, it might be like at 8:00 PM on a Friday or something like that and you spend it almost 20 bucks and that's if you're not getting any food, cause then you can spend a hundred dollars on some popcorn 

[00:54:39] Erich Wenzel: coated in gold, dude. 

[00:54:41] Jordan Criss: I mean, it's not literally a hundred dollars it's like, dude.

[00:54:46] Like there's like you're giving me a chicken tender basket and I can get a koumas burger for just the same amount. Like, are you out of your mind? Have you lost your mind? But for some popcorn, I'm like, that's what the concessions, I don't get why they're so expensive. I don't, I don't get it. I don't get it.

[00:55:03] Erich Wenzel: Fix your concessions. 

[00:55:05] Jordan Criss: Literally, man. I mean the industry it has, it's going to either change or it's got an old fall. 

[00:55:11] Erich Wenzel: It's an old concession industry. It does not mesh with the modern sensibility of snacks anymore.

[00:55:18]Jordan Criss: Like, yeah. Have you got a drink at a bar? At a movie theater ever? 

[00:55:23] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, dude. Like once or twice though.

[00:55:25] Cause it's really expensive. 

[00:55:27] Jordan Criss: I literally look at them and I'm like why? I'm a bartender. I've done this. 

[00:55:34] I'm like, what's in the drinks? I haven't ever had an amazing, you know what I mean? You can go to some cocktail lounges where they charge like $13 for a drink and it's 

[00:55:42] Erich Wenzel: cost 30 and it tastes like $13.

[00:55:44] Jordan Criss: It's like, wow, this is delicious. I'm not going to get drunk off this necessarily. but it's good. Yeah. But 

[00:55:49] Erich Wenzel: where's the experience 

[00:55:50] Jordan Criss: of getting a freaking goose Island IPA for $9? I like I mean, I don't know. I'm not trying to hate on it too much, and I know I am, but it's, it's, it comes from love. 

[00:56:04] Erich Wenzel: It's the other end of the spectrum, right? Like going to the movie theaters and then there's all of this other extra stuff wrapped into it that, you know, it doesn't need to be the way it is and the answer, probably not.

[00:56:16] The difference between theatre and home experience

[00:56:16] Jordan Criss: I mean, it would make sense that the tickets were really cheap and it was like, tickets are cheap concessions. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. But it's not the case. I hope it gets fixed. I don't, I would. I never want to see that happen. Cause I do think that is how movies are supposed to be seen.

And if theater and immersed, yeah, I think that's the real, the real way. I'm not against, you know, the net net streaming at home and stuff, but I mean you can, I'm going to pause it and go, you know what I mean? What, what happened? Let's rewind it like, no, cause like when you know, you can't remind that, you know, you can't pause it.

You're paying a lot more attention. You know what I mean? Your phone. Some people don't. I know for myself, I'm like in it, and I'm like, alright man. I think everyone like talks so much shit to me, but I turned my phone off. 

[00:57:04] Erich Wenzel: I'm not surprised at all. This is amazing. 

[00:57:06] Jordan Criss: When I go to a movie and everyone's like well, you're a nerd, you're so lame. And I'm like, I don't care. That's my thing and I'm paying attention. I gave him this, imagine you bought your a hundred dollar popcorn and you just festivals, if I'm paying a hundred dollars I'm turning my damn phone off. That's for sure. 

[00:57:27] Erich Wenzel: I mean, you know, it's, it's what you care about so it's like for you, it's like you're taking an exam. You know, you've got a two and a half hour exam, you're gonna, you're going to get your money's worth out of that. I will pass, right? I mean, I don't know it, it makes a lot of sense to me cause I wound up doing the same thing with the podcast when I listened to them.

[00:57:46] When words that come up are, Hey, I listened to this podcast today. I can imagine how many heads, Oh, here we go again. I mean, I even feel like sharing my own stuff with you guys. Sometimes I'm like, Oh, here I go again. Broken record. Cause, I don't know. It's like, cause it's like links all of a sudden.

[00:58:02] It's like a boom, and here's another thing. God dammit, right? Talk about something else. I'm like, you're right. 

[00:58:08] Jordan Criss: They're like, well, this is what I think about all the time. You know what I mean? It's hard. It really is. but it's cool. It's cool to have pageants. I mean, I like when people talk about what they're into and what they're doing.

[00:58:20] Because you learn about them and you learn where their head space is and stuff like that.

[00:58:24] Letting people express themselves

[00:58:24] Erich Wenzel: I think that's one of the differences about being cynical about someone's interests and just letting them speak their mind. Right? Like you were saying, he's like the nerd. I'm like, why are we talking about TV?

[00:58:36] And everyone goes, you should about it. Like, obviously they're not really annoyed at you, but they're being silly about it. I think when you give someone the space to be like, no, actually talk about that and you wind up having a way deeper connection than you would otherwise because it's just being authentic or genuine, you know?

[00:58:55] Because when you let people express themselves in whatever the way they feel like expressing themselves, then. You know, it's like, it's like putting out a candle, like, you know, rainy in their parade and it's like, Oh, you guess you don't care about my thing. 

[00:59:09] Jordan Criss: So that sucks, man. It feels bad. Yeah. Like, I'm sure you've felt it too, but when you're talking to someone and especially somebody who respects you and you're like, Oh dude, I've been working on this.

[00:59:18] Or like, you're really excited about something. And they're like, yeah, cool. And just like change the subject immediately and you're like, great. You're tiny. Like, yeah. Like, cool shit. You know, this sucks. 

[00:59:28] Erich Wenzel: It really does. I don't know. I guess it's just part of our group of people that we just kind of surrounded ourselves with is just this ability to be inclusive and not never just be like putting each other into a box of like, you should behave this way.

[00:59:42] You should be interested in this thing. It's like, no, we're going to just go find the thing that we're interested in and then we're all going to go, come together and talk about it, and like, yeah. Oh wow. That's really cool. Like, you know, we could go from especially like just go listen to the F, the friendsgiving episode.

[00:59:56] We just bounce around to all sorts of different topics and somehow it has some sort of a through line. It's kind of like the secret sauce of our friend group is that we can kind of pick and choose from things. Cause you know, the way I look at it is. When you have a whole bunch of diverse interests, you're able to make a more compelling story.

[01:00:16]If we're going to keep it on the screen writing side of things, the more interest you have or people who are like. On the outside, I can look and be consulting about it. Like, you know, if you're going to write like a, some sort of techno, you know, science novel or something, or screenwriting, you know, the first person you'd probably ask is me about something science related and be like, does this seem right?

[01:00:35]Am I off base here? And then, you know, I give you honest feedback about how the science would work there. You're like, all right, cool. I think I got a better idea of how to like, write this now. Yeah. You know, or speak about it. Right. Something like that. And it just adds more nuance and textures to the, to the story than that you're trying to tell rather than just being like, Hey.

[01:00:54] Jordan Criss: So to be that, in that vein of creativity, you have to have different, like, walks of life that you can, access. Because I mean, realistically, I don't know everything.

[01:01:05] So it's good to have where you can be like well, I have a friend who's really into being an engineer you can help. Like I want to do something like that. I don't know, and I haven't studied it, or like psychology or whatever it is. 

[01:01:17] Erich Wenzel: Right. It doesn't pay off for you to go and immerse yourself completely in that thing to be able to talk about it. 

[01:01:22] Jordan Criss: Because realistically the time isn't there to be like, well I'm going to go become an engineer so I can write a story about engineers. It's like, okay, cool dude. 

[01:01:30] Erich Wenzel: Or you can go talk to them. 

[01:01:33] Jordan Criss: Like, you know, I mean there's some stuff that helps to be immersed in it. So balance, you know, having that balance helps.

[01:01:41] But no, it's definitely cool. It's like being a writer, it's kind of an introvert. Like even when you're writing, like blogging and stuff like that, it's kind of, 

[01:01:50] Erich Wenzel: you're in your own head 

[01:01:52] Jordan Criss: and you're literally literally made and you're putting what's in your head to a piece of paper, which, I was going to say this earlier, but I'm like, that's one of the scariest things to me.

[01:02:03] Jordan Criss: [01:02:03] let's make this into something. It's, it's, it's scary, but it's like a good, kind of scary. It's like, I'm going to, I'm going to nail this, you know what I mean? Right. Like a motivational type thing. but. It's a, what was I saying? It's an introverted thing, but to be able to really get like the full picture, you have to have almost like extroverted activities to bring into that.

[01:02:27] You know what I mean? You have to be like, you have to do stuff. You have to experience things. 

[01:02:31] Being of the world 

[01:02:31] Erich Wenzel: It reminds me of this like, I don't know, it's a mantra maybe I would say. Where it's the idea of being of the world rather than just being a passive experiencer of it. 

[01:02:46] Yeah. If that makes sense. So what, what that comes with, what that really means for me is like, you know, like you were saying, you have like five projects you could be working on every day.

[01:02:54] Right. So right now during this conversation is direct disservice to whatever you could be working on because you always have something that you could be doing. Yeah. I'm exactly the same way. Right? Like I can give it a go editing something else right now, instead of doing this conversation. But instead I go and choose to have these richer experiences about just living life.

[01:03:13] Instead of being like, Oh, I got to keep working, you know, keep grinding away. so that when I go out and do those things, it's like recharging my batteries because I have a more appreciative tone, to how I look at the world and be like, Oh, I do not experience that thing. And it's not about being, you know, grinding all the time.

[01:03:30] Or always being a hundred percent productive, like doing the productive thing. Like sometimes the most productive thing is doing nothing at all because you give yourself the space to kind of decompress it and step away from it because when you go revisit that thing, whatever it was, it's given you that, that little bit of breather or recovery to look at it with a fresh pair of eyes and it's like, 

[01:03:51] Oh I figured it out. That's where I was stuck on. You know, some of the times it's like, it reminds me of the gym where it's like you, you get in that mindset where you gotta go every day. Like I kind of can't be lazy. You gotta keep going. And then you take maybe two, three days off and like, you come back to that fourth day and you're like, Oh dude, I'm like breaking all my own records right now cause I gave myself  time to heal.

[01:04:13] Erich Wenzel: You need to think about that. And it. I try to do the same thing when it comes to this podcast. A lot of times it's like, no, it's like when you go out in the world and like to meet your friends again or like to catch up with people. That's like recovery. Like you need a, you need a break. Some times to go experience life instead of just being in your head, 

[01:04:29] Jordan Criss: you gotta know when to step away.

[01:04:31] Erich Wenzel: Definitely its never ending battle 

[01:04:34] Jordan Criss: And it's so easy to get in your own head, especially like, you know, like us or like people like us where you kind of obsess over certain things. It's hard to know when it's like, all right, man, you need to put it down. You know what I mean? And that's kind of something I've been trying to, I don't know, like find the perfect balance because.

[01:04:57] For me, I can, I've caught before, I've gotten better at it, but before I've found myself, when I do, I'm like, okay, I need to take a step away. That step away becomes a little longer than I wanted to, and I'm like, Oh, it's been like two weeks. And I'm like, fuck. And it's like, damn it dude. Like 

[01:05:13] Erich Wenzel: you needed that much time to kind of, yeah.Be like, cause you're not, it's like you're coming off a peak. 

[01:05:17] Changing or keeping routines

[01:05:17] Jordan Criss: It's like, it was almost like all in or all out. And I was like, ah, it's not sustainable. So it's getting to the point where, I mean now I'm getting super annoyingly regimented and switching, like my job switching and now I work from home so that I'm adjusting to that and that it's so easy to be lazy.

[01:05:37] I cannot stress it enough. Like working from home is awesome for everyone listening who wants remote jobs is awesome. But it can't be told you it is so easy to be lazy, not necessarily with the job, because I feel like if you're doing a job, you're doing, if you are a hard worker, you're going to work hard at what you're doing regardless of that, necessarily saying that. But when it comes to other things, it's easy to be like, cause you're home all day and then it's like, Oh, I gotta go to the gym now. It's easier to be like, nah, I get that. Yeah. 

[01:06:05] Erich Wenzel: It's a weird feeling to, to. Or it's, it's a weird thing to be used to doing a thing like, I feel like going somewhere sometimes, like even if it's just the gym or just your job, it allows you to switch over into those different modes, right?

[01:06:21] Like it's like, it's like turning a knob. It's like, all right, now let's work mode, and then you go to work, or it's like gym mode. So you're in gym mode now and then. But when you're just in the same environment all the time, it's like you just get, you know, it's like couch lock, but 

[01:06:33] Jordan Criss: for your brain, the world goes on like around you without you realizing it. And I feel like you have to be out in it, especially if you're trying to tell stories about what the world is. 

[01:06:46] Erich Wenzel: Unless you're some Genius. Who's a little sociopathic. 

[01:06:49] Speaking what you write

[01:06:49] Jordan Criss: Congrats to them, dude. But like, yeah, I don't know. Most of the writers I admire, like they're introverted, but. They have to be doing things like Aaron Sorkin.

[01:07:01] I kind of started doing this a little bit. I just wanted to try it out, but what he'll do is what he vibrantly will act out his dialogue. So he'll be writing something in a book. You can't handle the truth, you know what I mean? Like from a few good men. Oh no, she hates it. Well, actually, she hasn't said anything about it, but there was one time I asked her to.

[01:07:22] I was like, okay, I need you to be this person. And the short I'm writing, there's a female character, I forget her name, whatever the name is as I can, you just read her prayers and I'm going to read the guy's pirates. And she's like, what? I'm like, just read that, read that to say it when I say this, she's like, I'm not an actor.

[01:07:38] And I'm like, I know I'm not. You don't have to be. I'm like, that's not what I'm saying. It's neat to hear it. You know what I mean? So I just literally, like, yeah, I'm like, he helped me, but so now I just do it myself and I'll like say it out loud. 

[01:07:49] Erich Wenzel: Do you like to run from one side of the room to the other? 

[01:07:52] Jordan Criss: I was just like you. No, I don't do that, but I'll just like it, but no. Like it helps when you can hear it. Cause you can hear the rhythm. It's like music. 

[01:08:00] Erich Wenzel: No, I get it. Weird. 

[01:08:02] Jordan Criss: I didn't even, did you make any connection there? Yeah. That was the first time. I mean, I've heard other people say it, but it's the first time I related it to my own.

[01:08:08] Yeah. But it really is, I think you would like to hear the rhythms, like the flow.  You know and hear like, Oh the beats. You know what 

[01:08:14] Erich Wenzel: I mean? It is wild for me like that, because I've started to do. It's such a weird thing that some of my written podcasts are starting out as typed out things, and then I'm like, I don't make that a podcast.

[01:08:26] So then all of a sudden it's like I get done with the written form of it and then I'm like, alright, time to record. And then I like reading it out loud. And I'm like, Aw dude, that sentence is horrible. And then I like typing. I like fixing it in real time. And then I'm like, Oh, I gotta go re record that.

[01:08:40] Like, it's wild. Like sometimes you just gotta talk it, talk it, like speak it. And then it really makes it feel like a thing because written English is very different from spoken English. 

[01:08:52] spoken English is so strange. English is a strange language, but it's like spoken English is unrefined.

[01:09:01] Whereas yeah, formal like written English is very formalized and you know, there's words that you say, especially like seeing transcripts. The normal way we talk is a lot of run-on type sentences. It's like a buts and I’s. Like you say, I like stutter and the, you know those filler words as you're speaking, your thoughts that don't come out.

[01:09:27] In written English cause they're not there cause it's refined. It's such a strange thing to do and it's like you have to clean it up to make it readable. Yeah. Like you clean up the fluffy words, extra things and he's like, Oh wow. 

[01:09:40] A love of dialogue

[01:09:40] Jordan Criss: Weird. Which is why I love dialogue because it's like, it's gotta be clean, but it's gotta be messy at the same time.

[01:09:46] It's gotta sound like fun. It's gotta sound like people are like. People don't talk. Have you ever watched something? It's like, people don't say that. You know what I mean? Like 

[01:09:55] Erich Wenzel: I'm imagining like a gang banger or something. Like it's like. 

[01:09:57] Jordan Criss: How was your day today, sir? It was like, no, no. Like you just look at him, bro. It's like, stop. 

[01:10:05] Erich Wenzel: It's actually fun. Like I'm reading a book right now and they have a lot of like, there's a gang, like a Spanish gang in it, but fiction. Yeah, it's fiction. I think it's like a thriller novel with murder mystery kind of thing. 

[01:10:15] Jordan Criss: Sorry to cut you out. Do you read much fiction? 

[01:10:16]Erich Wenzel: I used to be literally behind you, to your, to your right.

[01:10:20]I used to a lot, but I, lately I don't, as much, but what'll happen is I'll get a book where I'll like be reading a whole bunch of fiction or nonfiction rather, and then I need, I'm like, eh, I'm gonna need a break from my brain and not absorbed so much. Just raw inputs. Yeah. And then I'll go into a fiction book for a while and just absorb it.

[01:10:40] And it's fun because it feels like I'm in a movie, as I've explained this before to you, where I can kind of like pick up a chapter and it feels like a new episode and it's fun. Like now I'm actually kind of seeing how the authors can write their characters, where they write their prose to fit the characters tone.

[01:10:58] Yeah. Which is like, I've never made that connection until like earlier this week. And it's so, it's such a strange thing to notice those little details where it's like, Oh, this, they're like writing in that character's tone now. Or like writing how he would speak or like, he's like, one character is like a reporter.

[01:11:15] And so he's a little rough, kind of like a beat reporter kind of guy, like, but resourceful, kind of squirrely. So they write in that way, you know? And it's like, they'll be showing a descriptive language like the gang members, like who are Spanish, so they're doing like, broken. Broken Spanglish.

[01:11:30] Where they'll put like English words and then they put like hombre or something in there and throw it in there to make it feel unrefined and broken. It's really fun. Like I'm like, Oh wow, this is really cool. Like, you know, so you have to know a little bit of Spanish. I'm not fluent in Spanish, obviously, but I know enough Spanish to kind of.

[01:11:45] I understand what they're trying to say and it's just really cool to kind of get those layers and written form and then seeing how it translates into audio and transcripts and stuff like that. You know me and always connect things. Right? 

[01:11:59] Jordan Criss: That is really cool that they do that. I figure.

[01:12:02] What's his name? George R. Martin or Martin would do something really similar. 

[01:12:06] Erich Wenzel: I only read one of his books. It's really intense. 

[01:12:10] Jordan Criss: I've heard they're nuts, 

[01:12:12] Erich Wenzel: but it's intense and I don't know what it is. I was less interested in his books than I was about like Lord of the rings or even the First Law trilogy. I thought those books were more interesting to me. I don't know why it could be that just the TV show has had so much hype around it that it just didn't feel necessary to read the book where it's like Lord of the rings. It felt like, okay. They spent enough of that time in the movies to get it right, that they felt like there was more than enough to go like that you could get an extract from in Lord of the rings. Right. Does that make sense? 

[01:12:44] Jordan Criss: No, no. That definitely makes sense. So, 

[01:12:46] Erich Wenzel: yeah, just different lenses, you know, each one has its own reasons to be used, in my opinion at this point. 

[01:12:53] Jordan Criss: That's a whole nother thing. It's a skill. It's definitely not easy. So I commend them, I don't remember their names, so I apologize.

[01:13:07] Erich Wenzel: Thrones, the, that sounds right. I forget the other guy's name off the top of my head

[01:13:13] Jordan Criss: but it was a pair writer, director pair. Yeah. but commend them, cause it's, I don't think it's easy to adapt a story because that's a lot. There's a lot in a novel.

[01:13:23] And to pick the important parts and then take all the fluff out and, you know, still hit home on certain areas that it's not, especially in an hour long episode. 

[01:13:31] Erich Wenzel: And that's more than most people get 

[01:13:33] Jordan Criss: versus a two hour movie like hunger games. I think that it really, well

[01:13:37] Erich Wenzel: I enjoyed that movie. 

[01:13:38] Jordan Criss: I thought they're awesome.

[01:13:39] They liked all of them, all four of them. my uncle, he was like, I can't watch that. I'm like, why is kids killing kids? I like Oh yeah, I guess. Oh, wow. Yeah. I'm like, I guess that is really dark, but didn't think about that. Yeah. It doesn't feel dark, but it is like when you really think about it, it's like, yeah.

[01:13:58] It's like, Oh, they're picking kids out of towns and saying, yeah, kill each other, and whoever wins, you're a celebrity. It's really dark. 

[01:14:06] Erich Wenzel: That's really dark. 

[01:14:07] Jordan Criss: Wow. And you don't notice that, but it's, I like it a lot. I like the story. I think it's really cool. 

[01:14:13] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. I don't know. I really have a really. It's a really interesting thing to like to adapt something to the screen in some way or another.

[01:14:20] Adapting other forms to screenplays

[01:14:20] Even like to use another one is the Witcher, right? Like I feel like that's a special, another special case too, because that's a video game. It's a book turned into a video game turned into a series. So it's like you've got three different audiences. That they're trying to target and may be happy.

[01:14:37] Jordan Criss: Yeah, they'd nailed it, I think. 

[01:14:39] Erich Wenzel: I think they did a great job. You know, they really captured the essence of the character. Like, especially with something like that where you have like, you know, a visual representation, like a book is dealt with one thing, right? When you have a description of a character and it's like, all right, how do we make this character real?

[01:14:53] Whereas like, you got a video game character, it's like, Oh dear God. Like we got it and now we gotta either, you know. Make a lot of people upset or we try to hit it as close to that as we can.

[01:15:06] Jordan Criss: A video game. It's turned him into a film or TV shows or whatever. I felt like it didn't work. Like I can't think of another one that turned out well, but not doing was terrible. The one with the rock, I don't see that like the early two thousands my God, that was awful.

[01:15:25] Erich Wenzel: Other video game movies that I can even think of. Not many. 

[01:15:30] Jordan Criss: Yeah, there's not many. I know there's some like Sonic the hedgehog. Everyone says it was awesome. I haven't seen 

[01:15:34] Erich Wenzel: I've heard the same thing. It's kind of like. Detective Pikachu, if you're a fan of that stuff, you know, you're a fan of that to kind of, I mean, that one, they, they did a one 80 on that one 

[01:15:44] Jordan Criss: and the picket, you 

[01:15:45] Erich Wenzel: no, on a Sonic, because 

[01:15:48] Jordan Criss: when they first came out, 

[01:15:49] Erich Wenzel: everyone hated the look of Sonic. And then they went to the drawing board and redid that. 

[01:15:53] Jordan Criss: I commend that production company, but it's pretty good. It's impressive because that doesn't, how many times have people come out and been like, Oh, we don't like that. That looks like this. 

[01:16:02] Erich Wenzel: I mean, they basically just do the whole goddamn movie.

[01:16:04] Jordan Criss: That's awesome that they did that. They're like, all people don't like it. Well, we'll fix it. Like 

[01:16:08] Erich Wenzel: Rerendering an entire model like that. 

[01:16:10] Jordan Criss: I had to pay all these people that come back, dude. That's honestly, that's so dope. And I'm glad that all the people who complained, well, I don't know if that's the case, but yeah.

[01:16:19] If you're someone who complained about how it looked, they've gone and fixed it. Go see the movie. You know what I mean? Like, like don't, cause then if you don't like say, I don't know what the numbers are, but say the numbers fall flat, no production company is ever going to do it again. And they're like, no, it doesn't matter cause you're not gonna see it anyway. Right. So they're gonna be like, this is what you guys, 

[01:16:36] Erich Wenzel: it's going to be the biggest thing for them is that okay, if how many people complained, can we track this in some way? Or like see reviews in some way? Yeah. So. I mean we're lucky that we have the ability that, you know, the audiences can kind of have a voice a little bit because you know, back before the internet movie just came out, right. Of the letters, yeah, it was really cool. It's cool that it's a little more accessible. 

[01:17:09] Gold Age of TV

[01:17:09] It's interesting. We're in an interesting time of entertainment and like. 

[01:17:13] Jordan Criss: I love it for you. It's like the golden age, especially for TV. Yeah. I love it. I had a, I was literally, when we left the gym, I was thinking about the initial script that I was going to write and I was like, that's a little too much cause it's like a, it's going to be like a saga.

[01:17:29] And I was like, I'm just not there yet. And I was thinking about it. I'm like, should it be a TV show. I just like it, I think I liked TV more than film. 

[01:17:42] Erich Wenzel: Is that because it likes time constraint differently? 

[01:17:45] Jordan Criss: I feel like you can really, I feel like TV, I might be wrong, but I feel like TV is more about character. And like, you can really get into the character, you know what I mean? Like, I'm sorry, I keep bringing this up. I'm really sorry, but breaking bad, you know what I mean? Like 

[01:18:00] Erich Wenzel: we just need to do a deep dive 

[01:18:01] Jordan Criss:  into bringing back as to it. It's just, to me, it's, it's like setting the bar. So I keep referring to her, cause I'm like, I think that's the gold standard. but I mean, how they got into not only, you know, Walt, but like all the other characters and you really, you know what I mean? I feel like you can't have that in a film. That film I think is more. should be more based around the themes and things like that that you're trying to 

[01:18:23] Erich Wenzel: present it. I was thinking too, as you were describing this, it was kinda like, well, film is better at painting broad brush.

[01:18:28] Whereas this TV series, you can do character arcs, and I'm thinking too, like series that's like not commercial break because I feel like commercial break ruins things. 

[01:18:40] Jordan Criss: It does. I mean, this is annoying. It removes the cadence. 

[01:18:43] Erich Wenzel: Whenever like tone or cadence, you gotta like reimburse the audience 

[01:18:46] Jordan Criss: every time there's a break so you're supposed to write those in the acts. That's kind of what that is. So like TV shows, I think they're on like a fi. It keeps changing, but I think they're running on a five X structure now, cause there's like five commercial breaks. And so each new act. Comes after the commercial. 

[01:19:03] Erich Wenzel: What does that kind of like seven, eight minutes and act?

[01:19:06] Jordan Criss: Depending, I mean, depending if it's a 45 alarm, 

[01:19:09] Erich Wenzel: if it's an hour long, it's 

[01:19:10] Jordan Criss: 45 minutes of, 

[01:19:12] Erich Wenzel: yeah. See, this is mean, I think. 

[01:19:14] Jordan Criss: Yeah. But yeah, no, literally, so you're supposed to write those in, but it's kind of less important now with the, like Netflix and stuff like that. but in that. Within the ax for commercial breaks or certain things that have to be brought up that should be brought up in each act.

[01:19:32] Like at the beginning, you have to, we have to know in the first 10 or so pages what the story's about, you know what I mean? and within those 10 pages, which would translate to 10 minutes, am I interested in or do I not care? 

[01:19:45] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. Basically, that's like your hook, right? Yeah. You got 10 minutes to make sure the audience is going to stick around.

[01:19:52] Jordan Criss: Yeah, and I mean, that's true, right? Are you going to watch something for two seasons and be like, well, I hated it up till now. Like, no, that's not true. The first episode, if you don't like it for the most part, 

[01:20:05] Erich Wenzel: people know what they like and know what they don't like pretty quickly.

[01:20:11] The, I think the only time people give things a second chance is when they have friends or people that are close to them saying, no man, you gotta just keep walking.

[01:20:18] You gotta go. Yeah. Unless you have a cult following like that, where it's like, just keep watching. That's when it gets really good. You know? You got that. She got that one friend who gets really enthusiastic about things and just like, you just gotta keep going. You'll love it. You know? They're trying to sell it to you more than the show is.

[01:20:36] Jordan Criss: Like people watch the first episode of breaking bad. They're like, I don't know. I wasn't interested. And I'm like, how come? Like, I mean, to me, I was like, I don't get, what's not? I mean, yeah, it's the first episode, 

[01:20:46] Erich Wenzel: ] a long time to get it. Like get like give it a chance. And then once I gave it a chance, I was like, Oh, Oh, Oh. And then it was like the second episode, I was like, Oh yeah. And then it just kept going and it's 

[01:20:57] Jordan Criss: I like, Oh yeah. I'm like, I mean. They're setting the story that they can't give you everything. Right? Then like there, but I feel like I got the best pay off.

[01:21:08] When they give you everything too early, then you're expecting them to beat that, and it's. Really hard. 

[01:21:14] Erich Wenzel: So what I want, I want to bring up here is, so you're really, like you said, you're really in a dialogue and you're really into character by character development. I was going to say growth, but that's the wrong word because 

[01:21:27] Erich Wenzel: [01:21:27] I was going to say growth, but it's, it's, it's broader than that because you can have negative character arcs for, for wild, wild sake. It sounds growth, but not in the way you are the positive. 

[01:21:39] Sci-fi gives you worlds that could be

[01:21:39]Erich Wenzel: So for me, I'm obviously a big fan of sci-fi. And I think what scifi does well is to give you a world that isn't exactly real, but a world that could be. So if you think of, like black mirror, probably being one of the prime examples of this is, that's why I really love sci-fi is not that writing or characters are all that interesting, but it's like.

[01:22:04] It gets your creative juices to get Ken to go back to that. cause if you look at a lot of the fundamental scifi things back in like the sixties and seventies those people that created Silicon Valley watched that stuff. And then all of a sudden, you know, 40 years later. Some of the things that they saw, and like star Trek and dune and all those movies and books are now real in some form, not by those names, but they're there.

[01:22:30] They're kind of real. Right. And to me that, I think that's what scifi does. It gives you a window into a world that could be, yeah. And then those little kids that see, I'd say, Ooh. They become the adults that say, what if that is real? Yeah. And then they're, you know, crazy enough to try and make it real.

[01:22:52] Erich Wenzel: I don't know if you have anything to add to that or thoughts about just, you know, film and writing, being lenses to create a world that could be, 

[01:23:01] Jordan Criss: so how do I want to. Say it. So I will watch any genre. I'll start there. So I'm not, because I think I have to, I have to be versed.

[01:23:14] I can't just be, I only watch thrillers then I'm only, I can only write thrillers, you know what I mean? So like I'll watch, yeah. Romcoms. You know what I mean? 

[01:23:24] Erich Wenzel: The role of the eye there.

[01:23:26] Jordan Criss: God, but like 

[01:23:30] Erich Wenzel: you have a really specific, like range of things, like you're pretty open to most things, but it's like now it's romcoms and country.

[01:23:36] Jordan Criss: Well, no, so country never, but like romcoms there are some really, really good ones. You know what I mean? Then I'm like, that was a really good movie country. I've not had that yet. It just hasn't happened. Whatever. 

[01:23:49] Erich Wenzel: Even though all the. Old Town road, 

[01:23:52] Jordan Criss: I guess. Okay. I guess I'm wrong. There was one that I liked.

[01:23:55] Okay. I'm wrong. I like the country.

[01:24:02] anyway, but no, there are some romcoms that I'm like, okay. They did a good job. If I can, I'm trying to think of one off the top of my head. That's not a movie, but high fidelity, high fidelity. It's a new show on Hulu. I, I would say that's, yeah, that's a romantic comedy, but it's a little different. it's a remake of a movie that was made in like the two thousands, maybe 2004.

[01:24:22] and I'm going off a little bit, but I'll bring it back. but that they do that really well. I highly, highly, highly recommend it. Like I knew from the first five minutes that I'm like, this is going to be good, cause the acting and like they just. You're in it, you're in the city. Like they just, they immerse you into this intense situation.

[01:24:39] Like going, it's like a couple going through a breakup. Oh. And without even giving, like, without relaying this like a, like a mouthful of expedition, you kind of know like that it was like on your tones and just kinda, it was like, Oh, emotional. Yeah. Like you could tell like, Oh, this. It's like true heartbreak, like this was supposed to be the one and it's ending, and that's like the first scene and the acting.

[01:25:02] And then I'm like, Oh God. I was like, this is going to be good. So go watch high fidelity. Zoe Kravitz is in it. She's dope. Amazing. yeah, go watch it. so cool to bring it back. I watched a lot of genres and. I've, sci fi isn't one of my favorite genres, not because I disliked science fiction. but for the reason you said where, I forgot how you said it, but what they try to, I feel like the focus sometimes can be more on the world or like on the world building world building, but like on the like, look at this cool thing.

[01:25:38] This guy has an Android or you know what I mean? And it's like. The focus is on that coolness. 

[01:25:43] Gimmicky. Yeah. Like, look at this scifi thing, 

[01:25:46] like even Star Wars. It's like the focus is on how cool it is. Not necessarily the characters of the story. Not saying they don't but like the cipher, like, ex Mokena.

[01:25:57] Yes. You know what I mean? That's one of the best movies I think. Yeah, that's another one. But 

[01:26:02] Erich Wenzel: The same director ironically doesn't even, I said it and I was like, Oh wow. No wonder I like both of those movies. 

[01:26:08] Jordan Criss: I didn't know that. 

[01:26:09] Erich Wenzel: I think it seemed to writer same director. 

[01:26:12] Jordan Criss: He's making a TV show. Whoever I saw, like briefly, I didn't look into it, but I saw that there. He's producing something, so I'm excited about that. Cool. But yeah, like stuff like that when it's like heavy themes and like characters are important. Stuff like that. Like I love that. yeah. 

[01:26:25] Erich Wenzel: That's why I kind of said black mirror too. Cause they're, they're kind of a high watermark and genre of that thing. 

[01:26:31] Jordan Criss: Black mirror can get away with it because since it's a, what's it called? Serialized. Yeah. I think that's what it, so it's not, 

[01:26:39] Erich Wenzel: each episode is its own. 

[01:26:40] Jordan Criss: It doesn't continue. So it doesn't have to necessarily be so character centric, which is so they can get away with something like that.

[01:26:48] Office Discussion

[01:26:48] But I do what a story should do is highlight something that either was or is or can be. And take the most drastic form of it because you can't, it's boring if you write a story about the mundane of everyday life, like, okay, you're cool, but like. Take the office, for example. It's a comedy and it's literally just working in an office, but it's like, let's put the craziest people inside this office.

[01:27:16] And now it's interesting. 

[01:27:17] Erich Wenzel: Well, cause it's like, it's like they take those personalities and turn them up a couple notches, and then you got like, you know, yeah. The office manager is right. And then you have a Dwight. Yeah. 

[01:27:27] Or then you have the lazy guy, right? 

[01:27:29] Jordan Criss: And then it's like literally, it's like, let's give you a nerd, but not just a nerd.

[01:27:33] He doesn't just like Battlestar Galactica, like, no, he's crazy. Like we're flipping, he lives by himself on a farm and he, it's a beachfront. It's like just make it as drastic as possible and that's when it becomes interesting and compelling. And you want to hear about it. You're like, I have yet to meet a beet farmer.

[01:27:52] You know what I mean? Like just, you know, but 

[01:27:54] Erich Wenzel: then he's like, but he feels like a beet farmer. Is that 

[01:27:56] Jordan Criss: exactly? Is this relatable? And you feel like you've met a beet farmer, but then you're like, Oh, no, no, I haven't. You know, no manager's Michael Scott, but you feel like you've met managers that you're like, they're like my style.

[01:28:07] Like Michael Scott.

[01:28:11] Erich Wenzel: hilarious. Oh my God, it's so hilarious. There was like a guy who's doing like YouTube videos or something like on a Facebook thing, and he was doing like Jim impressions where he was talking but like dubbed over, but he was dressed like him and he had like the interview scene where it's like the white wall behind him, 

[01:28:27] Jordan Criss: the talking heads.

[01:28:28] Erich Wenzel: doing the talking head scene with the documentary. But he's just, he looked exactly like him and he's just mimicking word for word with the actual audio playing us. He's like mimicking facial expressions. It's like, yeah, whatever. You know how Jim does this thing? It does the eyebrow thing.

[01:28:45] It's really funny. I was like, wow, you nailed it. Like, cause it's like they have, they've thought about the characters enough. To have the little nuances that it's like, Oh yeah, that's, you know, it's even weirder because they've done Jim did Jim so well that he's still Jim, even though he's Jack Ryan. 

[01:29:01] Jordan Criss: Or whatever else he did.

[01:29:05] He's married to Emily blunt, but you want him to be married to Pam. Yeah. No, you're with Pam. And apparently though, apparently. He's like, really? Like, you know, he's super cute and like does all this stuff for Pam. And I was like, 

[01:29:20] Erich Wenzel: yeah, he's like, adorable. 

[01:29:22] Jordan Criss: He's like that in real life. So Emily Blunt's in the movie, the devil wears Prada.

[01:29:28] And I forget exactly what it is. There's a scene where she's like, wants to wear this dress or something like that. And in this podcast I listened to beyond the screenplay, they were talking about devil wears Prada, and the girl was like, Oh, Emily Blunt interview. And she was saying like, she would come home and John Krasinski would be sitting on the couch watching Deborah's Prado once you walked in and he's like, I just love you in this dress.

[01:29:52] And it's like. Dude give us a chance, bro. Come on dude. Be real. And I'm like, so you're just really like that? Like, come on, stop. But it's cool though. 

[01:30:04] Erich Wenzel: I mean, that's just we're acting in real life and meet. 

[01:30:08] Jordan Criss: Yeah, it's probably so easy for him. He's like, I'm just like this. So here I go. 

[01:30:14] Erich Wenzel: That's kinda cool.

[01:30:14] That's really neat. Yeah. So we're almost an hour and a half already. 

[01:30:17] Jordan Criss: Oh, damn.

[01:30:21]What does feeding curiosity look like for Jordan? 

[01:30:21] Erich Wenzel: I was like, looked at it. I'm like, I thought it was like 30 minutes. so I'm trying a new question for this year. Like I just started using it, but you know, obviously you're feeding curiosity is the title of this thing, but I do believe that feeding curiosity is very specific to the individual.

[01:30:38] So my question is, what is feeding curiosity for you?  

[01:30:42] Jordan Criss: I really want to like it. What goes into what I do is one, something that fulfills me. So like when I stopped doing music that was like soul searching, I attribute that to like the soul searching Jordan.

[01:30:59] Like if anyone did a 30 for 30 on me, that wouldn't be the time that he discovered himself. You know what I mean? 

[01:31:16] Jordan Criss: And to surround myself with things that I find fulfilling. So that's kind of what I try to encompass in my life. And now the things that keep me hungry and keep me striving are to become the best I possibly can at said things.

[01:31:42] So for instance, like screenwriting, not in the eyes of others by myself. And so to do that, I believe you have to be fully immersed and find out as much as you can. So it's, it's a curiosity that stems from desire, I guess. You know what I mean? So I'm not. You know, there's stuff that people like to talk about.

[01:32:06] I'm just like, yeah, I don't care. You know what I mean? Like 

[01:32:08] Erich Wenzel: not, I mean, you're very specific about the things you, you're just not my thing. 

[01:32:13] Jordan Criss: You know, and like, I'm not necessarily cynical or, you know, I don't put people down on stuff. They're into this country, but, but like, you know, if there's something that I'm not about or it doesn't necessarily interest me.

[01:32:29] You can tell me all you want to be like, Oh, you should look into this. And I'm like, yep, not going to do that. You know what I mean? You're also, 

[01:32:34] Erich Wenzel: I think that's one of the things too, you do, you, you're very honest about that. Like if you can, someone can say, you should look into it and you're like, maybe you're like, maybe it is.

[01:32:43] I haven't looked into it. I probably won't. Yeah. So you don't get people's hopes up. You don't like to leave people on. 

[01:32:47] Jordan Criss: And I mean, that's just because I know where my attention needs to be in. Should be. And that's. One in living a life and I want to, you know, create memories. But also I want to be the best version of myself in the eyes of myself that I could be, I don't want to be okay.

[01:33:03] I think I figured it out. So I don't want to be older, let's say 60 or 70 and look back on this time of my life and be like, I really didn't give it my all, like, I don't want to have regret. And I think that is always here. You know what I mean? Like always just kind of in the shadows. And 

[01:33:21] Erich Wenzel: like at the periphery, like when you, like right before you close your eyes at night 

[01:33:24] Jordan Criss: and that like, literally, it's like a, it doesn't even feel like a fire.

[01:33:29] It feels like, like something's like reaching out to grab you. And it's like when you're slipping up too much and like, you just feel like getting closer and you're like, ah, no, no, no, no, no. You know what I mean? Like, get it, get it together. You know what I mean? It's scary, it's scary. I honestly, that is one of the scariest things to me.

[01:33:44] Like, you know what I mean? To look back on life and be like, wow, I didn't. Give myself a real chance and whatever. I mean, and put whatever you want. But yeah, I think that's what really feeds my curiosity and everything I do is just not leaving anything on the table. 

[01:34:01] Erich Wenzel: Dope. Couldn't put it any better. That's awesome, man.

[01:34:07] That's really cool. Yeah, and that's a perfect place to end this conversation with the great and powerful Jordan. Chris, 

[01:34:13] Jordan Criss: thank you. Thank you for having man who is dope, 

[01:34:14] Erich Wenzel: as always. You've always got a spot at the table piece.