Joe Vezzani: Finance, Cryptocurrency, and Entrepreneurship
“People don’t want to take three steps back to make ten forward.”
Subscribe on your favorite platform: Anchor | Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Podcasts | Overcast | Stitcher | Amazon Music | RSS |
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
Consider supporting our content directly. You can also leave a review on your platform of choice. Thanks for listening!
Joe Vezzani is the Chief Executive Officer of LunarCRUSH.
Joe has a diverse background in working in Finance, Technology, Advertising, Sales, Marketing, and Start-Ups. A second-time Founder with both companies accepted and graduated from Techstars programs. Extensive start-up and business development network. Also technical with six years of product management background. Crypto since 2015.
LunarCRUSH provides a suite of tools designed to improve cryptocurrency research for investors, exchanges, and funds, built purely around providing community insights. The website is a free tool for the crypto community, designed to provide unique insights and adaptive, engaging user experience they can't get anywhere else. It helps simplify crypto investing by reducing research time, simplifying social intelligence, and providing a complete view of the market.
Connect with Joe and LunarCrush:
Website: https://lunarcrush.com/
Twitter: @joevezz & @LunarCRUSH
LinkedIn: Joe Vezzani & LunarCRUSH
Show Notes:
[00:04:45] Joe's Background
[00:05:46] What is LunarCRUSH?
[00:06:28] Entering the Workforce in 2008
“I came out of school in 2008, kind of when the shit was hitting the fan sector in the mortgage banking sector and the housing sector.
And, it was actually a really interesting time to come out of school. And I had a lot of friends that, you know, didn't find jobs for a long time. I was pretty fortunate, out of school, to find a job. I mean, it was in a sector that I actually didn't even know existed. It was in advertising them - new advertising and marketing.
But it's funny when you're just kind of coming out. And I was so financially focused that. I really didn't understand the difference between ever pricing and marketing and advertising and like the creative platform that's created in the end, the idea of the 30-second spot, which I think was such a big thing.”
[00:08:58] Evaluating Options
[00:10:30] Finance goes to New York
“When you go traveling in New York, and you talked to the folks in banking there, I mean, they, they do think that they're, it's the center of the world for them still, which in some ways it really is. I mean, a lot of the big banks are there. There's so much international.”
[00:11:36] Working In California
[00:14:31] Having a different lens than the typical Fiance Person
“I have a different lens from that time. And I've always really. It's like if I saw an opportunity, I was going to get it or try at least try it. You have to try it, and whether or not it's working or not, that's something that you kind of figured out a little bit down the road, whether or not it was a good decision, but, yeah, I think I got kind of under the cover a little bit of how some of these businesses were working. You need even, some of my friends, I went and worked in private equity.
It was like, well, you've never operated before, but how so how are you understanding? You know, this business and it just depends. Some people can, can see value in different ways and, but I think it is an important thing for anyone. And, you know, being a founder of a technology startup.
Now, you know, you see that a lot with venture capitalists. You know, you, you, you know, right off the bat, whether or not someone was an operator or a founder before because of the way they talk to you because of the way they treat you, the way that they. You know, they understand, they truly understand what it's like to be behind the curtain and Hey, are we going to make payroll next month?
This isn't; we're bootstrapping, we're here right now. And it's not some of these folks are really high up on there, their horse and it's, and you can kind of spot it out. And I think over time that stuff kind of really works itself out.”
[00:16:30] How did Joe Enter the Crypto-Currency World
“I had worked for a financial advisor before, and I was like, you can't, I can't give financial advice on this stuff. And so we were just like, let's not do that. John, he had a great background in technology and, and he'd been a vice president of user experience at a couple of spots, and it was a consultant.
He was a builder too. And we were just like, what should we do? Should we, let's build something. If we can build something, and they were experts, you know, and that was the way that we saw it, is that if we can build software and the industry, and we can be in it for a long period of time, it's still only a ten-year-old space and well, the first thing, you know, the first five or six years, no one's in it. And it's flushed a lot of people out in the last, you know, year and a half, cause it's kind of in a bear market. And so we said to ourselves like, what do we do? And now what do we do in this market when we try to find new things.”
[00:22:08] Gaming and Crypto
[00:24:46] What Gaming Can Teach You
[00:26:32] Play Games With Your Kids
[00:28:25] Both Short and Long-Form Attention Exist
“I learned much more because, in these games, other people were, you know. It was like you had to make like for rainbow six we had to make like a really cool, it was like a WinAmp skin, I don't even know if you know what that is, but like Winamp was, we got one of the original like MP3 players, but it was like designing something like that out.
You really had to figure out how, how, like how it was designed was, and then you had to get consensus from you. You know from your clan, you know, to figure out what you wanted to create. That's when you're like 13, you know, I don't know. Parents let your kids play long-form games, but keep them off social media.”
[00:31:16] Working With Email More Effectively
[00:32:39] What Do You When You Feel Distracted?
“I will delete, like some of the social media apps for, you know, like a long period of time.
Like I've done a couple of month period where I've deleted stuff and, you know, you do feel better. You feel. You know, like you're, you're more focused on what you're trying to do. But it's difficult, you know, running a small business right now, no. Twitter is very important for our business and engagement on that platform and getting, getting the word out for what we're trying to do, and answering a lot of questions. You end up, don't realize how much informal customer support you do.
On social media, you know, and people are just shouting stuff at you. It's like they don't even want to go to your site or your app. Like they're just, maybe they're just engaged in the content that you're pushing out, and you end up doing just a ton of customer support by just literally replying to tweets or replying to a thread in a forum somewhere or something like that.”
[00:34:42] Making New or Repackaging Old Content
[00:37:11] The First Content Experiment - YouTube
[00:38:24] What Does LunarCRUSH Show?
“We're doing sentiment analysis on that specific data. And so that we do that on our data and we're looking at, and we use machine learning to identify kind of these trends in a bullish or bearish tone. But that's kind of one piece to what we're doing. But the overall market, sometimes people also use the word sentiment and like that's a category.
And so we sometimes I think we kind of get pushed into that category, but really we're trying to kind of break out of that. And, you know, just. Well, we talk about the community. We're looking at what the community is saying, and what is the community feeling around these specific projects? And then is the community growing, are they shrinking? Are you going to invest in a project that there's, like maybe five people talking about that each day and maybe very early on that, Hey, I know this project is going to be big, and this is very, very early?
But for the average investor that's out there that you know has potentially bought some Bitcoin. If they're looking at these other projects that are trying to kind of solve things that Bitcoin doesn't solve, and they're trying to find value there, you really need to look at the community analysis around what you're looking at to figure out if there's value.
And then there are other things that are that I think are more advanced, you know, investors and traders are looking at things like on-chain analysis and you know, where people are actually going and looking at the blockchain itself and figuring out kind of where the flow of money is going. So all they know how many wallets there are for a coin, and they know, based on where those wallets were purchasing Bitcoin or you know, where they were selling it.”
[00:42:05] How would you recommend taking the first step into Cryptocurrency?
[00:44:24] Predicting the Future - Uber Example
[00:46:21] Evolution of the Internet
[00:48:34] Creating a Personal API - Controlling Your Data
“But you kind of become your own API where if you want to give people access to your data, then you're allowed them access, but then you can shut that off. So it's not you on your phone accessing Facebook and Facebook, putting your data on your face, and you know, I like the Cubs or whatever else out there.
You have that data. Facebook allows it to become available to the people that are out there if that makes sense. And then you can shut it off at any time, and you know, you, it's kind of like the only way to do that in a, efficiently and privately. It's through blockchain.”
[00:52:31] Confusion of Data Usage - Corporate vs Government
[00:55:38] The Need for Targeted Advertising
[00:57:25] What Belief or Behavior has most improved your life?
“I think finding some activity or some workout that you could always go back to that kind of center you. It's probably been at least once a week I've gone for like a five-mile ride, and we'll say, and I think that if you're having an off week or something is going on, you need to always kind of go back to what got you there.
And so I don't know if this is something I've started in the last five years, but it's like I've never missed a week of at least one run and I'm doing other stuff. I'm trying to surf, doing yoga. I'm trying to kind of work out where I can. But it's something that's always continued to push me forward.
And I think it's just really helped. And it's like just sweating, you know?”
[01:01:03] Not Making People Stay for No Reason
[01:02:42] Busy is a Choice
[01:04:28] Wearables - Recovering Effectively
For more checkout: Wearables: Meet Whoop and Oura Ring
[01:08:36] Personalized Medicine and Routines
[01:12:34] Favorite or Most Gifted Books
Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill
[01:17:03] Advice to Someone Who Wants to Get Started in a New Domain
“I think it's more about just trying new things and networking with the people that you know are, are as open as you are, and want to give you the opportunity. And I think it was like my dad always told me it's do a good job and someone will notice.”
[01:21:43] How Do You Find Your "Passion"?
Other episodes you might enjoy:
Check out our blogs:
TO AVOID HEADACHES PLEASE NOTE LEGAL CONDITIONS:
Erich Wenzel owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of Feeding Curiosity podcast, with all rights reserved, as well as his right of publicity.
WHAT YOU’RE WELCOME TO DO:
You are welcome to share the below transcript (up to 500 words but not more) in media articles (e.g., The New York Times, LA Times, The Guardian), on your personal website, in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., Medium), and/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided that you include attribution to “Feeding Curiosity Podcast” and link back to the feedingcuriosity.net/podcast URL. For the sake of clarity, media outlets with advertising models are permitted to use excerpts from the transcript per the above.
WHAT IS NOT ALLOWED:
No one is authorized to copy any portion of the podcast content or use of Erich Wenzel's or Feeding Curiosity's name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services.
Joe Vezzani: Finance, Cryptocurrency, and Entrepreneurship
[00:03:59] Erich Wenzel: Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Feeding Curiosity and today's episode. We are joined by Joe Vezzani. Hi, Joe.
[00:04:06]Joe Vezzani: Erich, how are ya?
[00:04:07] Erich Wenzel: Pretty good. This has been a wild ride with the holidays. It seems like everything's so compressed this year, but finally in the downswing.
[00:04:17] Joe Vezzani: Yeah, and well that kind of period in between.
[00:04:21] You know, Christmas and new years or certain people are, are trying to reload the new year and certain people are trying to get ahead, I think.
[00:04:28] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, that's exactly true. It's, some people are trying to decompress into 2020 or now the other people are trying to ramp up into 2020.
[00:04:36]Joe Vezzani: Right.
[00:04:38] Erich Wenzel: Alrighty.
[00:04:38] So go ahead and start us off with your professional background, like who you are and what you do.
[00:04:45] Joe's Background
[00:04:45] Joe Vezzani: Sure. Yeah. No, I, you know, I can start kind of in the present. I guess. I'm the CEO of lunar crush. so we are an analytics and research firm for cryptocurrencies. so unlike. Traditional stock markets that have earnings reports, management.
[00:05:01] You know, there is a way to really assess value, for those companies with cryptocurrencies. It's very supply and demand. And when I say supply and demand, I mean, what are people saying? What is the community doing? What is the community? When I say community, I say, I mean community around each of these cryptocurrency projects.
[00:05:20] I think some people don't understand that there's. You know, over 2000 of these cryptocurrencies, they're out there now. You know, I think that one thing that, that people realize is there's big coin and there's these couple other things, but there's a lot more that's out there. And, and we try to kind of help folks and investors, really just kind of decipher where, where is the value in these different cryptocurrencies by what the communities are saying.
[00:05:46] What is LunarCRUSH?
[00:05:46] So we're really a social listening tool. So we're out there looking at things like Twitter and Reddit. a lot of new sources, and, and YouTube and medium, and there's all, all sorts of other things. And in the crypto community, there's things like telegram and discord. And where are these, you know, community, you know, conversations happening and, and we kind of track all that.
[00:06:06] And when we put it in a time series and we let people kind of understand a little bit more about what's happening and trying to kind of protect people against, you know, maybe something that doesn't have a big community that you probably shouldn't invest in, but. You know, you couldn't decipher that yourself.
[00:06:20] Just kind of scanning your Twitter feed on your own. You're really looking, you know, you're only seeing a little bit of the picture when you're looking at that. So that's what I'm working on now.
[00:06:28] Entering the Workforce in 2008
[00:06:28] I came out of school in 2008 kind of when the shit was hitting the fan sector in the mortgage banking sector and the housing sector.
[00:06:40] And, it was actually a really interesting time to come out of school. And I had a lot of friends that, you know, didn't find jobs for a long time. I was pretty fortunate, out of school to find a job. I mean, it was in a sector that I actually didn't even know existed. It was in advertising them - new advertising and marketing.
[00:07:00] But it's funny when you're just kind of coming out. And I was so financially focused that. I really didn't understand the difference between ever pricing and marketing, and advertising and like the creative platform that's created in the end, the idea of the 30 second spot which I think was such a big thing.
[00:07:17] And, you know, obviously we've moved into kind of a more digital age an, but video is just so important. But, yeah, I came out of school, I ended up working for a company called DraftFCB. There were two kinds of Foote, Cone and Belding was a very kind of historical ad aiding ad agency.
[00:07:36] They'd been around for a really long time and, at the time that I think they had purchased or merged with another kind of direct mail firm called Draft, and had ended up working there for, for a couple of years and, and really liking it. learning about advertising, learning what. That business was, I was, you know, I wasn't in any sort of creative function at the time.
[00:07:57] I mean, it wasn't a proverbial mail room, if you will. I was unlike the general ledger. I wasn't even on like the client side of the finance I was, but I remember, you know, talking to my father when, you know, and he was a mortgage banker and it was, you know, coming out of. School in 2008. And he was like, just take anything, take anything you can.
[00:08:19]you know, cause I was looking at banking jobs and I was trying to move to New York and I worked for a Lehman's and the bear Stearns the world. And we don't happen there much longer with us. But, so yeah, I ended up in advertising and really learning a lot. just about that business and you know, about getting, you know, creating kind of the idea and what is the idea and how do you kind of make that idea live across different platforms and how do you get attention, you know, how do you get people's attention?
[00:08:48] And I think that was a really big and interesting time, after that. Okay. Go ahead.
[00:08:54] Erich Wenzel: No, you're, you're good. I have a different question, but continue.
[00:08:58] Evaluating Options
[00:08:58] Joe Vezzani: Okay. But yeah, so I worked there for about four, four and a half years. and in, in the early days of advertising, they actually don't, they don't pay very well.
[00:09:06]You kind of pay your dues like anywhere else, I think out there. But, I was, I was, you know, and it's funny to think now, it was like turning 25, and I was like, I don't even think I had made 50 grand yet. And, I was like, Oh, man, all my friends are passing me up. What am I gonna do? And but, you know, at the time, I just wanted to be kind of curious.
[00:09:26]very just what else could I do? And when I was at the advertising agency, I ended up moving around a lot at that company. I mean, I, I started in the general ledger side of finance. I moved to a more client budgeting side of that. And then, you know, I was living and working in Chicago at the time. And, ended up, there was an opportunity for me to go work in California.
[00:09:50] They had an office in Orange County and they had a couple of clients there. They had Taco Bell, which was a big client. and then a couple other small ones. and you know, A fellow had and come out here, you know, a couple of years before I had, and at first I actually turned down the job, I was like, no, I'm moving to New York.
[00:10:08] Like I'm a finance guy. Like, I'm going to go do that. And then I was kinda thinking to myself, I was like, what am I, well, I do it. I like, I got an opportunity here to go like live and work by the beach, like everyone should do once in their life, you know? And so, yeah. That's what it seems so far away when you're in Chicago out there, you're like California.
[00:10:28] Oh my God, look who lives out there.
[00:10:30] Finance goes to New York
[00:10:30] Erich Wenzel: At least, at least in New York it is still cold and stuff like that. Is it normally like that for finance guys to have that? Like I want to go to New York, whereas like for like artists type people would be like, I'm drawn to, you know, California is that kinda like the divide there?
[00:10:46] Joe Vezzani: Yeah, I think so. I think maybe, you know, it's a little bit less now. I mean, even that was only 10 years ago, and I'm sure it was even less than, you know, than it probably was. And like, you know, the early nineties and everything else, when that was really, you know, the center of the world. You know, but I think still it is till this day.
[00:11:05] I mean, when you go traveling in New York and you talked to the folks in banking there, I mean, they, they do think that they're, it's the center of the world for them still, which in some ways it really is. I mean, a lot of the big banks are there. There's so much international.
[00:11:17] Erich Wenzel: And it's got to start working.
[00:11:18] They're like, it's the hub of the world with, when it comes to world commerce and things like that. I never thought about it that way, but it makes sense.
[00:11:24] Joe Vezzani: 100% yeah. I mean, you can't, you can't beat the culture in New York. I mean, it's, you know, you turn it, turn it down one street and you got something, you turned down another, you got something else.
[00:11:32] It's really amazing, cool.
[00:11:34] Erich Wenzel: Continue with your story.
[00:11:36] Working In California
[00:11:36] Joe Vezzani: Yeah. So I ended up, yeah, I digress. But yeah, I know. I ended up, Moving out to Orange County, California, and worked still in advertising, but had kind of rotated around again, in the industry and, and was still doing a lot of the finance jobs that I was doing.
[00:11:51] And it was kind of this hybrid role where it was also kind of learning the production side of the business. So, you know, helping to produce little radio spots and then kind of just shadowing on some of the TV spots they were doing. And it was just, it was really interesting. It was, you know. You grow up and you don't see any kind of like, there are no cameras in there, there is no acting, and there is nothing.
[00:12:12] I mean, when you get a little bit, everyone that moves out to California, you get a little bit closer. I mean, Halloween's a big deal out here, but it's like you get a little bit closer to that, that action, and starting to just to see that process of creation and ideation on such a rapid, level.
[00:12:28] And with advertising, I think it's a completely different animal than. you're going to see with, you know, like major motion pictures where it's, you know, a couple of hours and those take months or years to make with, with advertising. I mean, there's these people that are kind of ripping these 32nd spots and they're cutting these things down and you have to tell a story in a very condensed time.
[00:12:48] And that was something that I was, I was not doing, I was kind of just seeing from the outside, but it was just an interesting, as a, as someone that was completely not from the industry and had a completely different talent with finance. It was just really cool to kind of see that process.
[00:13:02] And I think it's really kind of stuck with me, through the rest of my career. So worked there and ended up, moving on and, actually ended up working, at Owens Corning. So it was a commercial and industrial, division of, of Owens Corning, which was, you know, another very old and, and large kind of S and P 500, you know, commercial, industrial, like building products, you know, building materials really.
[00:13:28] And, ended up learning kind of, you know, pricing. And channels management, channel strategy and pricing management. And, you know, I was, you know, working on under some really smart folks and, and you know, that business was really interesting because it was a commodity. It was something that only a couple of companies were creating in this country.
[00:13:51]and you know, it was just price Wars. You know, it was, everyone knew that if you were going to build a commercial building, you know, and you needed pipe insulation, for instance. you know, duck board. If you needed these things. there's only a couple of places you can get them. and then there's only a couple of people that really are in control of the price and the prices are kind of set.
[00:14:10] So, a lot of kind of relationship management and, you know, kind of understanding a different business. But for someone who was 25 at the time, and. You know, I had California, Nevada, and Hawaii as my territory. You know, it was a pretty cool, that's an interesting, yeah, pretty cool gig at the time.
[00:14:31] Erich Wenzel: Wow.
[00:14:31] Having a different lens than the typical Fiance Person
[00:14:31] So it's really interesting because someone for you, for your aspect is like, normally you think of finance guy, they sit and look at spreadsheets all day, but you had this very interesting hybrid role, basically from the beginning, probably due to just happenstance of the, of the economics at the time with the downturn in Oh eight. And I feel like that gave you kind of this lens at which to see, kinda like how the, how the number side of the, of the business world actually is used to draw attention from the customer.
[00:15:04] Does that make sense?
[00:15:06] Joe Vezzani: Yeah. No, I definitely have a different lens from that time. And I've always really. It's like if I saw an opportunity, I was going to go get it or try at least try it. You have to try it and whether or not it's working or not, that's something that you kind of figured out a little bit down the road, whether or not it was a good decision, but, yeah, I think I got kind of under the cover a little bit of how some of these businesses were working and you know, you need even, some of my friends, I went and worked in private equity.
[00:15:33] It was like, well, you've never operated before, but how so how are you really understanding? You know, this business and it just depends. I mean, some people, you know, can, can see value in different ways and, but I think it is an important thing for anyone. And, you know, being, a founder of, you know, a technology startup.
[00:15:49] Now, you know, you see that a lot with venture capitalists. You know, you, you, you know, right off the bat, whether or not someone was an operator or a founder before, because the way they talk to you, because the way they treat you, the way that they. You know, they understand, they truly understand what it's like to be behind the curtain and know, you know, Hey, are we gonna make payroll next month?
[00:16:10] Yeah. This isn't, we're bootstrapping, we're here right now. And it's not, you know, some of these, these folks are really high up on their, their horse and it's, and you can kind of spot it out. And I think over time that stuff kind of really, works itself out.
[00:16:23] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, that makes sense. That's a good lens to have, I think, to have this, you know, you had training wheels on in the finance world.
[00:16:30] How did Joe Enter the Crypto-Currency World
[00:16:30] So you can learn all this stuff by being paid by someone else too, and then to make the jump into your own business. So how did that occur? Like what was it about crypto? And we can go as deep as we wanted to crypto, because I think it's still this kind of magical bubble for a lot of people. Especially, in general, like with apps like Robinhood and things like that where you can buy parts of Bitcoin or stuff like that where I hear so many people, even within my age group right now. That they're like, you should buy a little bit of crypto here. Like it's going to be big. Or like, you know, wait until it sells again or something. And I'm just like, you can't, like, Ugh. It drives me crazy. I don't know why.
[00:17:04] Exactly. It just seems like such a grasping at straws when you don't have any reference. So I would just love to unpack crypto and how you got into this space.
[00:17:14] Joe Vezzani: Yeah, well, I mean, there were, there were a couple different stops after even just my time at Owens Corning and, you know, I had another startup right after that and it was more kind of like a junior founder, but, it was a personal safety application, that, that I worked on.
[00:17:30] So I did get some startup, more startup experience there. And then, you know, that company, I moved on from that company and ended up moving back into advertising for a little bit. And, and the next. You know, the kind of stint that I did with advertising. I, you know, I'd met my co founder, not now John, and you know, he was, he was into crypto very early on just learning about it, trading it, just trying to figure it out.
[00:17:55] And, you know, he had told me about it, I think in, in 2015 kind of when Bitcoin was about $215 a coin. And, he was just kinda like, and this is what we say now to people. He was like, Hey, just, just get one, just buy one. . No. And just, just start following it. And it's like, you know, someone who had, you know, for me, I was in traded stocks before, you know, di did the trade account thing, like, and always kind of been dabbling and you know, now that I was, you know, I was, I knew in my heart of hearts that I was an entrepreneur, that I was always going to start something else again.
[00:18:28] I kind of was like, okay, this is interesting. This is an intersection of. Technology, and, and you know, it's money or technology. Finance. Yeah. So I was like, yeah, I was like this, I need this thing. Like how do I get involved with this? And you know, it was a, it's a global, it's a global market as a global space.
[00:18:49] And so we just started just kind of looking at it and just learning about it and figuring out more about it. We found out. You know, once you find out about Bitcoin, you're like, well, what's this? You know, what's Ethereum and what's Lightcoin? And you know, what's, what's ripple? These kinds of top four, top five things at the time.
[00:19:07]and then what ripple was around, or even like bitcoin or Ethereum, you know, until, you know, two years after we had found it. But, you know, we. We were just kind of like, this is super interesting. And then you, you know, as the price starts to go up, and still to this day, it's like the price of Bitcoin really seems to drive consumer, you know, attention.
[00:19:25] But as the price started to move a little bit and it started to kind of move higher very rapidly, you know, we were kind of, people knew that we were into it. And so people would always ask us, they'd be like, Hey, you know, what do I buy? You know, what's going on over here? What's, what is this? And, You know?
[00:19:44] So we were like, should we start like a little consulting company or something and help people with this? What should we do? And, and then this was when all of these kinds of ICS were happening. And for people that don't know, I mean, you know, initial crypto offering an ICO, which now is a very, you know, it's not, it was not a legal thing.
[00:20:03] I mean, it, it, in essence, it was basically the same thing as doing all this like. What, you know, an angel list or you know, a Republic where it's like, you can go and do kind of like crowdsourced securities offerings. But it, I mean, it was just, it wasn't regulated. There was no kind of correct process to go down yet.
[00:20:22] And it was very international and it's on the internet and when it's international and it's on the internet. Good luck regulating it, right? And so, you know, people can figure it out, how to get some of their money in and you know, they can transfer it. And I think that was some of the initial kind of like, Holy shit moment.
[00:20:39] Like I can take my money and I can send it anywhere and I can do what I want with it. And at the time, even there were a couple of little dips in the stock market and the price of Bitcoin moved up or didn't move. And everyone's like, is this kind of like a system, like systematic head edge?
[00:20:53] And I think that's still to be determined. You know, whether or not, you know, we'll see if we have a little downturn in the economy in 2020 and we'll see what Bitcoin does. And that might be another kind of signal to see where it is, where it goes. But yeah, we were just, we were just investigating and we were just looking, and, you know, we were like, I don't think we can do the consulting thing that I don't think that's legal.
[00:21:14] You can't, you can't get, I had worked for a financial advisor before and I was like, you can't, I can't give financial advice on this stuff. And so we were just like, let's not do that. and so, you know, we're, we were like, you know, and John was, you know, he had. Great background in technology and, and he'd been a vice president of user experience at a couple of spots, and it was a consultant.
[00:21:35] He was a builder too. And we were just like, what should we do? Should we, let's just build something like, and if we can build something, and they were experts, you know, and that was the way that we saw it, is that if we can build software and the industry, and we can be in it for a long period of time, it's still only a 10 year old space and well, the first thing, you know, the first five or six years, no one's in it. and it's flushed a lot of people out in the last, you know, year and a half, cause it's kind of in a bear market. And so we said to ourselves like, what do we do? And now what do we do in this market when we try to find new things.
[00:22:08] Gaming and Crypto
[00:22:08]and it was, you know, while we were on, like a lot of people on crypto, Twitter, you know, there's, there's a lot of forums on Reddit. There's, you know, telegram channels and there's discord channels, which is, you know, more for gaming. But this is kind of where this, you know, market was born on. If it was a lot of the people that were in gaming.
[00:22:28] Erich Wenzel: Oh, that's cool.
[00:22:30] Joe Vezzani: Yeah, they were just, I mean, it's just people that are living more on the internet but are living more internationally and you know, when you play. When you're playing these games, you're playing against people internationally. I mean, I used to play rainbow six back in 2001 when I was one of the first people that had ethernet and cable, in my neighborhood, and I was playing against kids in Korea, you know, it was like Epic.
[00:22:54] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. I mean, that's how I got into space with technology. I was starting my engineering degree and, and I. You know, it was learning the foundations of electrical design and stuff like that. And then I, and then I, you know, we always, we had these gray boxes that were computers and my parents are not technology literate at all.
[00:23:11] So I was like, well, if I'm gonna be an engineer, I might as well know how a computer is put together. So I went maxed out a rig and I put it all together myself for the first time. And then I've now since built like two or three other computers, but it's like. That, that was how I got into crypto was through the gaming world and understanding that hardware, like why GPU is, are used to mine Bitcoin or whatever crypto you decide to choose and stuff like that.
[00:23:38] So that's, that's where I got into this stuff. So that's funny to notice the overlap.
[00:23:43] Joe Vezzani: Yeah. You gotta, you gotta build something from scratch, you know, and figure out how it works. And, you know, even kind of diving in with, with gaming, it's like. You know, we used to like overclocking the CPU in order to make it go a little bit faster and like, you know, shut down every single thing on the computer so that you knew you were maximizing all the Ram that you had.
[00:24:04] Like, I think I learned more from, you know, rainbow six and EverQuest than I probably did in all of like high school in the first two years at college. Like, yeah. And it's not even like. It's also the community that you have in those games and the people that you're talking to. It's like, wow. It's like these are, you know, these are people that are, are like me,
[00:24:21] Erich Wenzel: I totally had, I haven't really had a similar experience in later high school where we had, we were playing World of Warcraft to date myself. And, Like we had a group of people and we were able to, like, the thing that blew my mind was the ability to do like a raid, which is basically 2025 people all like doing a similar puzzle.
[00:24:39] For those of you who are not interested in WoW.
[00:24:42] Joe Vezzani: and we just lost a lot of people. I think.
[00:24:46] What Gaming Can Teach You
[00:24:46] Erich Wenzel: It's okay. I don't care. It's, for me, I love talking about these like overlaps of things where people look at the surface level and then they immediately check out. But going a little bit deeper beyond the surface, like what are the thematic things that it teaches you?
[00:24:59] And a lot of that is, being able to cooperate without ever actually meeting that person. Just knowing that you have a role to fill and you mesh on that role. Like you, if you show up on that role and everyone and you see them, everyone else is going to do that. Then all of a sudden you can do things you never thought you'd be able to do solo.
[00:25:17] Joe Vezzani: 100% agree. It's just a different skill set. It's like in the, in the office setting, you know? Okay. This person is a really good communicator. This person, you know, might, you know, is someone that's going to do a lot of like long form writing and can put everything on a paper. This person can design.
[00:25:34] This person can, is an engineer with . You know, world of Warcraft or with EverQuest, you just kind of like, okay, this Druid can ship people from this land to this land, and you know, this person can affect this much maximum force on this, you know, and it's just a completely different thing. And it's actually probably more complicated in the business world, honestly, solving some of these games.
[00:25:54] Yeah, probably. Probably much more complicated.
[00:25:58] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. It's interesting. I find the overlap of different industries that most people assume are unintellectual or in quotation mark wastes of time wind up paying dividends in different problem solving realms that you wouldn't otherwise expect.
[00:26:14] Joe Vezzani: Yeah.
[00:26:16] Erich Wenzel: That's kind of where I go with all these things.
[00:26:17] It's like if you look at something as a waste of time, then you're not going to find any value from it. But if you look at it with a deeper lens and be like, okay, what can I like? What can I extract from this experience? Even if it is like, I'm just relaxing here.
[00:26:32] Play Games With Your Kids
[00:26:32] Joe Vezzani: I agree. I think it's great. It's a great place to start and I think for all you know, here are, and you know your podcasts, who knows?
[00:26:39] Are there any parents listening? It's like. Play games with your kids, like get in there, figure it out, figure out what they're trying to solve. And some of these just like podcasts versus everyone's like, Oh, you know, flipping through Instagram or flipping through now tick talk, and there's wasting these hours of time.
[00:26:55] Erich Wenzel: I don't even use tick tock, I'm too old now. I don't know what, I don't know what to tik tok is.
[00:27:01] Joe Vezzani: It's just the, they're big. It's a huge waste of time. I think it's important, you know, to, to understand what. Is in front of you, especially if you're trying to run a business and get attention. And is there a way to do marketing and acquisition on some of these channels so you have to understand them, you know, in detail.
[00:27:19] And it's like, obviously you've got to talk to the kids that are super young because they're the ones that are on, you know, the next kind of cutting edge of what is going to be mainstream. Yeah. I dunno. I dunno if tik tok will make it. I, I think they will. I mean, I'm sure the time on that versus even Instagram is, they're probably seen a hit, but.
[00:27:37]you know, I think you just have to, you have to understand what's out there. And I think, like I was saying for these parents, it's like when you have social networks versus almost like podcasts, right? Like, if you were going to tell me in today's world that, you know, we're going to be sitting on, it started with Facebook, Instagram, and you're going to have, you know, like, I can't even, like when I talked about 30 second commercials, sometimes it even blows my mind that brands.
[00:28:03] You know, we'll show the same commercial over and over and over again. It's like in your feed. It's like if I see, if I even can, I can sense that. The next thing I'm going to see an Instagram is going to be an ad or even a, a meme that I've already seen. It's like flip past that, you know? So if you've
[00:28:21] Erich Wenzel: It doesn't even register anymore cause you're just like, Nope, I've already like not even knew..
[00:28:25] Both Short and Long-Form Attention Exist
[00:28:25] Joe Vezzani: No. You and your mind are just like the past. But we could also at the same time, like when I go for a run, I could listen to it. Tim Ferriss podcasts for three, four hours. I can listen to a Joe Rogan podcast sometimes five hours of my attention. Like how it's just an insane world to think that both of those exist, and I think there's a lot to learn from that.
[00:28:45] But I think that some of these long form strategy games that are out there, like for parents, don't be as afraid of those and the amount of time that they're taking versus if someone's staring into their phone mindlessly for four hours versus. You know, playing some of these games. Cause when I'm telling him right now, it's like, I know that, you know, the strategy that I learned from some of these games, the way what I learned about computers and you know, I'm not a developer, but it's like, I, I feel like I'm a, I'm just a very, I've been a power user since day one, you know, like learning flash and learning all these little things and just being very curious.
[00:29:23] I learned much more because in these games, other people were, you know. It was like you had to make, like for rainbow six we had to make like a really cool, it was like a, winamp skin, I don't even know if you know what that is, but like winapp was, we got one of the original like MP3 players, but it was like designing something like that out.
[00:29:43] You really had to figure out how, how like how it was designed was, and then you had to get consensus from you. You know from your clan, you know, to figure out what you wanted to create. That's when you're like 13 you know, I don't know. Parents let your kids play long form games, but keep them off the social media.
[00:30:03] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, I mean, I agree with this. This idea of attention is really big for me. I talk about making our devices work for us a ton on this podcast, and I will spare my, my soapbox for right now, but I think it's worth mentioning too. To, to look at those things. Because as you were saying, when you have kids letting them play long form, a lot of times you look at children and they say, wow, they just won't sit still or look at, they are always distracted.
[00:30:30] You know, they have like ADD or whatever. You label it as, But then all of a sudden you can put them in into like a game or something that just captures their attention. Like for some people it's music. For some people's video games, for some people it's sports and all of a sudden you show, you show the level of depth and focus that they have in these areas.
[00:30:46] And it's like, wait a minute. It's not that they can't sit still or they don't want it. It's still, it's, you have to put something that engages them enough. To let them, like, just figure it out. Eh. And I think that's the magic of it. You know? And the problem with social media is it feels like you're being productive.
[00:31:03] Just like emails. I think I read an article the other day was like, sending an email gives you the same, like feeling as like completing a task, when in reality it doesn't really do anything for you. It's just an email.
[00:31:16] Working With Email More Effectively
[00:31:16] Joe Vezzani: Right? So I think people feel more productive for some reason when they do. When they're sending things and you've got to even just think about the, think about that for a second.
[00:31:26] It's like when you're, it's basically you're asking for something or telling something. All you're really doing is putting another task on someone else's, someone else's plate that they're going to either look at later or opened right away and be like, Oh, I can't, I can't do that one right now because, I mean, let's be honest, like.
[00:31:45] Unless you're really unorganized and you know, it's even like we have, you tried to have like a 48 hour rule, you know, on our email where it's like, I'm going to get back to someone with, you know, within 48 hours. But it's like people are looking at their email, you know, and they're seeing that email that you had sent.
[00:32:02] They're just choosing not to address it at that moment because it's not in their time. And I think that's, that's the, you know, unfortunately that's the way that people address their email nowadays. Yeah. Where they should really probably create time slots in which to go after that email. And you know, if you are fortunate enough to be able to work from a, you know, an office once in a while and, and you have these time periods where you're going after the email, then you can actually shut it off on your, on your mobile device, unless maybe you're traveling.
[00:32:32] Yeah. But it's just a very, I don't know, we, I think the one way to get less email is to send less email.
[00:32:39] What Do You When You Feel Distracted?
[00:32:39] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, I agree. Do you have any tricks for yourself? Like what it works when you get distracted or feel like you're kind of spinning your gears or stuck in the social media loop if that happens to you?
[00:32:52] Joe Vezzani:Yeah, no, I'd be crazy to say that doesn't happen to me at all. you know, I think it's like right now I am investigating kind of like tic-tac and how it works and, and what's going on there, and it's like, I'm not. You know, at least I'm not really seeing a lot of value at this point, but it's, it's a place, you know, it's like, you know, I think Gary Vee would probably kill me if I said, you know, if I'm saying don't, don't actually look at what's happening right now, cause you want to be early on this stuff and it's easier to get attention earlier on.
[00:33:22] But it just depends on the, on the industry. I mean, there's probably not a lot of real estate agents that are looking for customers on TikTok right? I mean, yeah. Probably a lot of different, you know, consumer brands, like, I'm sure Sprite's trying to figure it out and some of those folks. But, you know, to get back to the question, I think something that I do from time to time is I will, I will delete, like some of the social media apps for, you know, like a long period of time.
[00:33:46] Like I've done a couple month period where I've deleted, stuff and, you know, you do feel better. You feel. You know, like you're, you're more focused on what you're trying to do. but it's difficult, you know, running a small business right now, no. Twitter is very important for our business and engagement on that platform and getting, getting the word out for what we're trying to do and answering a lot of questions, you end up, don't realize how much like informal customer support you do.
[00:34:13] On social media, you know, and people are just shouting stuff at you. It's like they don't even want to go to your site or your app. Like they're just, maybe they're just engaged in the content that you're pushing out and you end up doing just a ton of customer support by just literally replying to tweets or replying to a thread in a forum somewhere or something like that.
[00:34:35] Yeah. You can't be completely turned off from that stuff. For a long period of time if you want to, if you want to grow a following there.
[00:34:42] Making New or Repackaging Old Content
[00:34:42] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. The more I, the more I get into this stuff with like becoming, being your own marketing division basically or advertising is, it's such a strange thing to like you can have like the website and your main channel of like content, right?
[00:34:55] But then there's like this separate thing that is how do you attract people through these social platforms, which is a work in progress because. It's like a, a double edged sword when you're a small team. Cause it's like I can go out and like repackage the content that I already have or do I continue to make new things and be consistent.
[00:35:18] Yeah. Cause you have limited bandwidth to be able to produce. So it's either produce things and repackage them so you could attract an audience or you keep making new stuff. And so then you have like this weird dichotomy of like, Hmm, what do I focus on?
[00:35:31] Joe Vezzani: Yeah. No, especially with the podcast and that that long.
[00:35:34] For me, it's all about snippets. It's about, you know, those kind of quick, whether it's the ten second clip that turns into the three minute clip that makes someone listen to the whole thing. It's a. It's content is tough. And there's a lot of big companies that work on content strategy and content that, that's the new word.
[00:35:53] It's content, right? And it's whether that's video or whether that's images and, and I think it's, it's a very difficult thing to be consistent. It's very difficult and I think it's, once you kind of start working down that path of consistency, it's almost, you know, it's almost like now you're stuck in that loop.
[00:36:11] Yeah. and I think that, you know, influencers understand this very well from a personal standpoint and creating that content and not stopping to create anything else, you know, outside of like the narrative that they're sticking on with businesses. It's the same thing. You know, you're trying to tell a story of what your mission is as a brand.
[00:36:29] And you know what you're trying to accomplish. And you're trying to kind of add value and insights. And if you start, if you start posting five or six times a day and you have good content, you know your, your now if, and if you do that for a week or two, you know, you're stuck. And if you stop, you know you're going to lose, you know, so you better have a strategy when going in is what I'm trying to say is it makes sense.
[00:36:50] Need the strategy, and you just need to know that, Hey. I'm going to power this until I can't stop, and then hopefully I can hire someone to do it and then we can pass the ball onto someone else. Because it is, you know, any, I'm sure any content creator out there knows that when they wake up in the morning, they're thinking themselves like.
[00:37:07] Shit, you know, what am I going to put out there today?
[00:37:11] The First Content Experiment - YouTube
[00:37:11] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, I was doing that for awhile. It's ironic we talked about it, but my, and my previous life of getting into all this audio and content making was making video game gameplay stuff for a very small game called Heroes of the Storm. And I, I did that for about a year before I jumped into the podcast space officially.
[00:37:29] And, I use that to cut my teeth, but there was a point where I was doing like a video a day or a video every other day. It was just like crazy. Like I was just like, what am I doing? You know? The perpetual motion machine gets it. It gets going, and you're just like, I just gotta keep going. And then, you know, when updates or patches come out, you just like, there's so much new stuff I got to jump on it.
[00:37:49] It's, it's funny,
[00:37:50] Joe Vezzani: it's, especially if there's engagement.
[00:37:52] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. You know, when you, when you get people interested or, or if you're just super interested, it's just like, you just make it fun for yourself because you're like, Oh, I get to share this with other people. Like there, I'm before everybody else. And now they'll come to me first for sharing, you know, answering questions, like you were saying for Twitter, you know, it's like, what's my take?
[00:38:08]To kind of go back into the crypto world.
[00:38:11] Is there a way, not really a way, it's like your website is there to kind of be the, like the ear to the ground on like the entire crypto sphere, right?
[00:38:24] What Does LunarCRUSH Show?
[00:38:24] Joe Vezzani: Yeah. From a social standpoint, you know, we're, we're very focusing socials,
[00:38:28] Erich Wenzel: like not stigma, but the, one of the rumblings across the internet, basically.
[00:38:34] Joe Vezzani: Yeah, I mean, the word that ends up being used a lot is sentiment. What is the sentiment? There's also something else that's like sentiment analysis on a set of data. So understanding whether or not like a set of data is bullish or bearish. For example you're doing okay.
[00:38:53] We're doing sentiment analysis on that specific data. And so that we do that on our data and we're looking at, and we use machine learning to identify kind of these trends in a bullish or bearish tone. But that's kind of one piece to what we're doing. But the overall market, sometimes people also use the word sentiment and like that's a category.
[00:39:13] And so, you know, we, sometimes I think we kind of get pushed into that category, but really we're trying to kind of break out of that. And, you know, just. Well, we talk about community. Yeah. We're looking at what the community is saying and what is the community feeling around these specific projects? And then is the community growing, are they shrinking, you know, cause it with, with cryptocurrency, it's, you know, are you going to invest in a project that, you know, there's, there's like, you know, maybe five people talking about that each day, you know, and, and maybe, maybe, you know, very early on that, Hey, I know this project is going to be big and this is very, very early.
[00:39:49] But for the average investor that's out there that you know has potentially bought some Bitcoin. If they're looking at these other projects that are trying to kind of solve things that Bitcoin doesn't solve and they're trying to find value there you really need to look at the community analysis around what you're looking at to figure out if there's value.
[00:40:07] And then there's other things that are that I think more advanced, you know, investors and traders are looking at things like. on chain analysis and you know, where people are actually going and looking at the blockchain itself and figuring out kind of where the flow of money is going. So. you know, you know all the, they know how many wallets there are for a coin, and they know, based on where those wallets were purchasing Bitcoin or you know, where they were selling it.
[00:40:34] They know if those people are in the money, you're out of the money. So that average, you know, did that wallet, did it, does it have an average price of, call it $7,000 per Bitcoin. And right now they're barely in the money. And so there, there's a lot of different analysis that people are doing to look at this, but we think that kind of the average consumer, you know, should be looking at the community around each of these things as social followings are around each of these things.
[00:40:58] Just like you would look at,potentially would look at, you know, for trading inequities and kind of securities. If you're looking at, you know, buying JP Morgan, you know, we potentially. People listen and figure out if there's chatter or something that's happening out there that you know, potentially is happening a little bit earlier than when a news, you know, news article is released kind of like, you know, they teach you in school where it's, you see like a little as, as you get closer to earnings reports with companies, you can kind of see the stock leaking up or leaking down, and you know, you know, that means that someone kind of, some insider might have kind of given it a given, given it away a little bit, or someone has an inkling or the market's guessing which way it's going to go.
[00:41:41] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. It's like hedging its bets.
[00:41:43] Joe Vezzani: Yeah. They're, they're just, well, they just know.
[00:41:45] It's like, okay, if you have an earnings report that's going to happen January 1st and we're sitting here today and it's, you know, December 27th and Apple's, you know, maybe Apple's going to have some bad earnings. You know, you might start to see the stock. Yeah, let's go down a little bit. You know it's going to start going down.
[00:42:00] Just is slightly and you're like, okay, maybe this is going to be a bad, bad earnings report.
[00:42:05] How would you recommend taking the first step into Cryptocurrency?
[00:42:05] Erich Wenzel: That's interesting. So like, what would you guys recommend? Like this is not like actual recommendation of like should they buy or not, but if say was someone who's like already interested, kind of knows a little bit about Bitcoin, what would be your.
[00:42:21] First steps for that person to possibly be like buying a cryptocurrency. Cause I'm not going to recommend Bitcoin right now cause I think the price is kind of ridiculous. But, yeah. Like how would, how would you recommend someone like entering this space?
[00:42:35] Joe Vezzani: Well, you gotta do a lot. Just a lot of research, you know, and I think it's, it's understanding the difference between some of these other projects and big Corp. And why they potentially might have value outside of, you know, what Bitcoin is doing as a stored of value. So, you know, I mean our, that's kind of why we designed LunarCrush. You know, we designed so that someone could land on our site and go to one of our coin detail pages, for instance.
[00:43:04]you know, on something like a Tezos and. They can, which is a smart contract, kind of decentralized. It's a cryptocurrency, you know, and they, and they can go learn about, you know, why was it developed? What is it trying to solve? you know, what, what does the social following look like in the community?
[00:43:21] Look around that? What are some news articles that have been, you know, in the last week, last month, last year, like start doing research and started diving in and understanding more about why it's valuable and then doing that, you know, maybe across the top 20 projects by market cap, you know, so you've got a bitcoin and Ethereum and light coin and you've got some of these big ones.
[00:43:43] So start kind of just reading about the differences. And, understanding because we, this and that, it's still a nascent, it's still an early, you know, space. And I think it's, people don't realize how big this is going to be. when people don't realize that these technologies are going to be used for other things, that they're not used for right now.
[00:44:03] And it's kind of, I, I had a great example given to me, the other day, and I can't remember who said it, but, it was about Uber and. You know, they, when Uber was just getting started, and I think people don't understand how, how many years ago Uber was started. They even had, you know, it was 2006, 2008 like it was around.
[00:44:24] Predicting the Future - Uber Example
[00:44:24] Yeah. And it, you know, but I think the mainstream really didn't get it until 2013, 2014, which is crazy to think that was only five years ago. And they're still fighting. But, I think some, you know, there was this economist and they did a full analysis on Uber, and they're like, there is no way that, you know, the maximum, you know, the maximum like value that Uber could be is $10 billion.
[00:44:47] Like that's every taxi that's ever been taken in a year. Like, you know, it was like, that was the value of Uber. and you know, now that it's five times that, and you have Lyft and all these other ride sharing apps, he didn't. No one realized that they weren't building a company for that day. They were building it for the future, and they don't, you don't understand the consumer behavior until you're in it.
[00:45:10] So you might've taken a yellow cab. To the airport. You know, especially if you, you know, if you were living in suburbs of Chicago and you needed to go to the airport, or if you were downtown in the city, maybe you'd use it a couple of times, maybe a little bit more. Yup. No one realized that the average person was going to be using Uber 30 to 40 times as much as they were going to use, you know, a regular, regular cab.
[00:45:32] They didn't like to think that someone would forego even having a vehicle to and just use cabs. That would be insane to think back in 2010 and so the same with cryptocurrencies. It's, people haven't assessed the size of this market yet. They're not
[00:45:49] Erich Wenzel: Full capability of what it possibly could grow into
[00:45:52] Joe Vezzani: 100% people don't realize that.
[00:45:54] And whether it's a couple of them that ended up end up kind of making it, and it's more of a, you know, tech bubble, kind of what happened and you know, but Amazon was worth pennies on the dollar and it is today. You would have picked it off after the crash, but. You know, it's, it's kind of like when the internet came around, you know, some people say this is kind of like web 3.0
[00:46:14] Erich Wenzel: okay.
[00:46:15] They think Bitcoin or this currency, digital currency is like the next evolution.
[00:46:21] Evolution of the Internet
[00:46:21] Joe Vezzani: Yeah. They think it's the, it's a protocol and they think it's the next evolution of the internet. And whether it is, whether it's not, I mean, you need the internet for. You know, it's not like pied Piper. We're trying to create a new internet for those folks who watch Silicon Valley, but it's its own, people are trying to do that and, and they have a, you know, there is a potential that people will move to that kind of new way to compute.
[00:46:47] And it's almost like, and I mean it was even before, both of our times, but almost like the mainframe computer, you know, you have. These dumb terminals,
[00:46:56] Erich Wenzel: Time sharing things like that that don't even know people wouldn't think about timesharing anymore.
[00:47:02] Joe Vezzani: Yeah, but I mean, I'm like an actual mainframe used to sit like these IBM mainframes just sit in the middle of an office and then you'd have these terminals.
[00:47:11] And then all of the, all of the data was centralized in that one spot. And then, you know, everything was kind of moving off to different servers. And, you know, you had your computer at home and it had, you know, a certain amount of space and a certain amount of memory and you had everything there. And then once cloud was.
[00:47:28] It started to kind of take off, which everything is that now cause for this, you know, you need to be scalable. People don't realize that everything really moves back to like that mainframe, except it just sat on an AWS server, you know, somewhere else. But everything is now back on that cloud. It's back on that weird.
[00:47:45] Erich Wenzel: I never even thought about that.
[00:47:47] Joe Vezzani: Yeah. And you don't have access. It's not yours. I mean, when you think about it and kind of crazy to think about, you're like, Oh, I have all my passwords, or I have my, you know, my bank account, and then whatever else. And it's like, it's just sitting somewhere else on a computer, on a hard drive somewhere very far away from where you're sitting.
[00:48:06] And it's crazy to think about, but it, I mean, it's also created like some of the most ridiculous companies and sustainable. You know, I mean, the fact that I can go on Amazon and I can get like, you know, you can get dog food and a charger and a drone and whatever else, and
[00:48:24] like never before in four clicks, like I'll never, I'd never take, you know, I never want to take that away.
[00:48:30] Erich Wenzel: That's amazing. Yeah, I did, but I think, go ahead.
[00:48:34] Creating a Personal API - Controlling Your Data
[00:48:34] Joe Vezzani: Yeah, I just didn't finish that thought. I think the dream of some people in my industry is to give you the power back so that you know you have access and you're in control of all your data. I'll kind of go a little bit too deep.
[00:48:53] But you kind of become your own API where if you want to give people access to your data, then you're allowed to give them access, but then you can shut that off. So it's not you on your phone accessing Facebook and Facebook, kind of putting your data on your face and you know, I like the Cubs or whatever else out there, right?
[00:49:13] It's, you have that data. Facebook is just kind of. Allows it to become available to the people that are out there, if that makes sense. And then you can shut it off at any time and you know, you, it's kind of like the only way to do that in a, in an efficient and private manner. It's through blockchain.
[00:49:30] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, I was going to say, so you'd tie like some, something about your personal data stream through the blockchain that secures it and then it's basically like a digital switch that you able to say, yes, I, I pro provide consent to such and such companies to be at Amazon, Google, or Facebook to take your data.
[00:49:48] And then you can probably install some sort of counter or tracker in there. So it was like, Oh, Hey, they're using my data this much, and then you can get digital kickback. Ideally.
[00:50:00] Joe Vezzani: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's just control of your own, your own data and it's, you know, it, it needs to be a paradigm shift in what's out there.
[00:50:08] And it almost would be like, it has to start from a new, yeah. Because anyone, anyone that's out there and has done anything at this point, it's like, it's already all out there and it's being monetized in some way. and so you gotta, you know, it's, it's kind of like, Hey, I, you slowly transition off of. You know, once these tools become proficient and they become readily available, it's going to be a slow transition for folks.
[00:50:30] It's like, well, when's the last time you changed your email address? You know, like last time you changed your phone number. So it's as folks get new email addresses and new phone numbers, you know, it's going to be a slow transition, but there's still developing parts of the world where, you know, these things could probably take hold a little bit faster.
[00:50:47] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, that makes sense. It makes it interesting for me because I've been thinking about this idea of data privacy and security. Whenever you talk about something and it's like, you know, they say your phone is not listening to you and say you say keyword and then not two minutes later or whatever next ad you see on Instagram or Facebook or whatever has that thing that you just talked about.
[00:51:09] You know, and you're like, what the hell? Like I didn't Google that. I didn't, I would just be curious to see if you ever were able to pull back the curtain what your actual data set about you. Right. Cause like all these companies are paying or we're using this. Data to basically put stuff right in front of you that you're going to more likely click on and buy.
[00:51:28]Which is, it's a little disingenuous. And to me it feels a little gross. But also it's like this, like you're saying, if you're someone who was born in, in the early nineties, basically, which touches myself, like you're basically plugged into this stuff from day one, like as old as basically the point that you have an email, you kind of have this data profile being built for you without you even notice knowing it's really happening in real time. So they're like, close the door and like throw away the key is a little impossible because it doesn't exist anymore. It's too late.
[00:52:01] Joe Vezzani: Exactly. Yeah. And I actually, I don't, and coming from advertising and you know, we used a lot of data to understand what, and we, you spend a lot of time strategizing about what is the correct ad to send to that person that's most relevant.
[00:52:15] And part of it is. Yeah, you want that person to buy, but part of it's also you're trying to find, and you just got to think about that nuance of this. As new companies come on board and they create these products that supposedly they think are gonna make people's lives better, they want to get it in front of the people that they think.
[00:52:31] Confusion of Data Usage - Corporate vs Government
[00:52:31] Is going to make their life the best. So it's like utilizing this data, I think for advertising and for relevancy, I think it is fine. It's like I, you know, I know that Facebook and you know, and Instagram and everything, they've, they know what I've clicked on. They've got my stream. Who knows how many, like, you know, IDs back on my phone that they have and cookies and everything that they've pulled together to send me relevant ads.
[00:52:58] And I don't mind that. I think what. What is, you know, what people I think kind of mix up is they're thinking like, Oh the NSA and like Facebook, like targeting data is like on the same spectrum. Like, okay, you know, like I don't think the average consumer understands. Cause I see people talking about like, Oh, did you know.
[00:53:19] You know, this brand is now, you know, utilizing this. And it's like, well, they've been utilizing that for a long time. And it's like they're not even utilizing it. It's Facebook and everyone else that really understands the targeting and the brands are just choosing, you know, they're creating lookalike models.
[00:53:34] You know who you are. And so it's, I mean, there, there are a lot of privacy protections in place for at least the larger brands do it well, where. You know, if they're buying a list of relevant parties, we'll use automotive. For instance, if, if you know, a large automotive brand is buying a list of people that they think is in the market to purchase a car, they don't even get those email addresses.
[00:53:57] They actually have to send it off to a third party who loads that anonymous list into their Facebook profiles. Oh, wow. So that they can target that audience, but they don't actually have the email addresses. They don't actually understand who that is from that standpoint. If they'd get first party data, like if you go to Ford's website and drop your email in, like, yeah, they've got it, but because you all are just trying to target new people. Yeah, exactly.
[00:54:23] Erich Wenzel: That makes sense. That's pretty cool. I do. Yeah. See, this is where I, I love talking about this stuff because it's, it's like the, the knee jerk reaction is everyone gets a little like, scared. It's like cold warish and it's like, Oh, they have our data, like, you know, put on your tinfoil hat a little bit.
[00:54:39] And, It's usually a little bit more overblown than people make it seem, because it makes you, well, usually the thing that pushes the emotional buttons is the one that spreads, because that's just how humanity works.
[00:54:51] Joe Vezzani: And if you're a millennial and you've got, everyone's got that uncle, you know who's like, especially around the holidays, it's just like so upset that they've got my data and like, you know, don't take a picture of me or don't.
[00:55:03] And then you just like in four seconds, pull up street view on Google maps of their home and like they're out front, like, like raking leaves or something. They're like, how the hell did you get that? It's like, dude, I had that for 15 years. Like, you know. If they want to find you, they're going to find you.
[00:55:23] Erich Wenzel: I mean, it's really not that hard like you. All you really need kind of is like, a profile page, like an image and a first name, and you can almost find anybody. Nowadays it's pretty easy. Like it's, it's not all that difficult to kind of find somebody with just how much we opt in to put our own faces out there.
[00:55:38] The Need for Targeted Advertising
[00:55:38] Joe Vezzani: From an advertising standpoint, it's like I'd rather they have this stuff if I'm going to use some of these social networks. I don't, you know, if I, if I, you know, don't have kids and you know, I'm now, I'm getting hit up with like diaper ads. Like why I want to, like, I should be getting hit up with like.
[00:55:58] Kind of the crazy next, like hydrating like powder that's gonna wake me up. You know? It's like, yeah, need to have some of these targeting things in place or your experience online is going to be shitty. And some people are like, some people are just like, just don't, I'm going to ad block every school thing.
[00:56:14] I just don't want to see one ad. And that's fine. You know? Maybe you're discovering new things. You're, you're still discovering products through publications that you're reading. You know, if you're reading outside, online, you know, and you see the new like gloves that are out there. It's like, do you think that, you know, they just randomly found those gloves and they think that those, the best gloves they had there probably had a list of companies that they kind of work with and there's a high probability that, you know, someone was paid to write those.
[00:56:41] Doesn't mean it's a bad article. It doesn't mean anything. It just means that they are, they're still sourcing good products for you. but it's just through advertising.
[00:56:49] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, that makes sense. Like some, like some of this, you need to have to, to have some of the magic that makes the internet work so well in this day and age, because otherwise it would be a little boring or just, I guess like a proverbial like shotgun of advertise it and just like, Hey, we just got to put this thing out there as in front of as many eyeballs as possible. Or you could take like the, like you're saying is this kind of like spec ops style approach of like, okay, if we know our subset of users, how do we just inject in to those people that are going to be the most likely return on investment if we're going to be like really analytical about it.
[00:57:24] Joe Vezzani: Yeah, exactly.
[00:57:25] What Belief or Behaviour has most improved your life?
[00:57:25] Erich Wenzel: That's cool. That's really neat. I never have really thought about it in that way. So kind of going a little bit more broad because we've already almost talked for an hour or rather a little bit more on your area of expertise, is the, in the last five years, have you had a new belief behavior or a habit that has most improved your life?
[00:57:47] Joe Vezzani: Last five years, huh? Yeah. That's most, you know, I just have to think for a minute, but I mean. I don't know if it's been a change. I think the one thing that you, you know, and I'm 34 now, but as you kind of cross into your, your thirties and you know. There's gotta be consistency. I've always been very active and, and, you know, tried to stay healthy.
[00:58:18] Yeah. But I think finding some sort of activity or some sort of workout that you could always go back to that kind of centers you, you know, and I never was practice would. That would,
[00:58:32] yeah. But more like, like for me, it's, it's probably been. No, I haven't. At least once a week I've gone for like a five mile ride and we'll say, and I think that if you're having an off week or you know, if you're having, there's change or there's something going on, you need to always kind of go back to what got you there.
[00:58:53]and so I don't know if this is, you know, something I've started in the last five years, but it's like I've never missed a week of at least one run and I'm doing other stuff. I'm trying to surf, you know, doing yoga. I'm trying to kind of work out where I can. But it's, that's something that's always kind of continued to kind of push me forward.
[00:59:13]And I think it's really just really helped. And it's like just sweating, you know? And I bike, I bike a little bit. but, you know, living in Southern California and, and going for kind of a, you know, a run, whether it be midday or morning and just sweating and just being in the sun. I mean, and you know, I even will listen to a podcast or hearing that it's a, it's a really good reset that I think, you know, if without that, I don't know where I would be.
[00:59:38] Erich Wenzel: That's cool, man. I couldn't agree more with that. It's kind of like, I don't know. It's a new paradigm of, of these, this newer entrepreneur or just performance-based thinking about, Hey, sometimes you just need like a mental, like flush, like you need a pressure relief valve for your brain.
[00:59:55] It's like I've told my coworkers, cause I still do have a day job that I do and I'm like, Hey, you know, if I'm going to be working like 12 hour days when you give, it gets busy.
[01:00:03] Like I might need to like, like leave and go to the gym for an hour and like have a mental reset. And they look at me like I'm insane and I'm like, you just gotta just let me do it.
[01:00:12] Joe Vezzani: Anyone, anyone that looks at you like you're insane because you want to go get a workout in and like that that will be the difference between.
[01:00:20] You as an entrepreneur and everyone else, and it's not a knock on anyone that's not doing that. But very early on in my career, you know, when I would see people from, you know, it would be 4:15 in the afternoon and it's maybe sometimes 4:30 depending on the person until five when they knew they were allowed to leave and they would just be sitting doing some bullshit on the internet or just talking, or just literally doing nothing to add value to the company.
[01:00:48] But they were afraid to leave because their boss wasn't leaving. And because that person's boss was leaving and it was, that person's boss wasn't leaving. Right. And you see this a lot, I think still today, even though I've kind of been out of the mainstream for a while, but it's, you'll see that happen.
[01:01:03] Not Making People Stay for No Reason
[01:01:03] And I always said to myself, I will never, I'm never gonna align to this personally, or when I run my own business, I'm never going to make people stay for no reason. I mean, just even with like, we'll call it just traffic if you would let, if you know someone's not going to work past four and you just let them leave early and they miss traffic and they get home earlier, their families and they get to relax or go work out or you know, hang out with their kids or their parents or whoever it may be, you know, you're telling me that that person's now going to work.
[01:01:33] Is not going to work harder for you the next day or not going to be more autonomous in what they want. Right? So it's like that was just the simplest decision that you could possibly make. And so I've always said to myself, I'm never going to let that be something. It's just the biggest, we waste so much time on just thinking about what other people are thinking and worrying about that, where it's like, go home, get the workout in, do something that's different.
[01:01:59] Get your mind out of this kind of, you know, monotony. If you're trying to solve a problem, cause no one, we work eight hour days, do you really think anyone's actually working those full eight hours? Absolutely. No,maybe Warren buffet or bill Gates. They have the most insane focus.
[01:02:17] Like I bet those guys could sit down and read a book for eight hours, but. that's cause they, you know, those guys don't, you have to drink, eat, or go to the bathroom.
[01:02:24] Erich Wenzel: Right. They're robots.
[01:02:25] Joe Vezzani: Elon's the same way. And it's like most people can't do that. So it's like, I, you know, I just saw another. It was like, another thing on Twitter and I, you know, I'm in kind of the VC crypto Twitter sphere, and that's my entire feed, which I should probably get some other stuff in there too.
[01:02:42] Busy is a Choice
[01:02:42]But there was like this big argument over, like, you know, if you're not working 80 hours in your twenties, like your shit, you know, your shit, like you're never gonna make it. And
[01:02:52] Erich Wenzel: see, I just pushed back so hard.
[01:02:55] Joe Vezzani: I just don't believe it. And it's like, and I'm like, they're like, well, if you're not working, I was like, well, you have to define what working is that is in literally like sitting down and like writing something out or like strategizing.
[01:03:08] And what if you need to strategize with someone else? What if your job is sales and it's ten at night? Like are you just working on your lead list for the next day? Well, what if your lead list is done? Like, and you know someone like. Like I probably believe that Elon like hasn't really taken a vacation.
[01:03:24] I'm sure he's done little trips here and there, but it's like, what if that guy did take a month off and like went and meditated in Costa Rica by himself? Like who knows what, why, like let's let that guy's creative juices flow and not worry about production.
[01:03:38] Erich Wenzel: Who knows what he would come back with afterwards?
[01:03:40] Joe Vezzani: The most insane Epic thing ever.
[01:03:43] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. I couldn't agree more of this like, so I'm 26 to date myself, but I was working. I worked through my degree in parallel. I work full time at an engineering as a tech technician. And then I finished my bachelor's in electrical engineering, in parallel. And so I know what it's like to just grind all day and have your like basically a whole week where you're never really taking an off day.
[01:04:05] And I was fine. Like, it wasn't super hard for me. Like I just was like, well, this is what I signed up for. But as I kind of finished my degree. I started getting into this world of like performance psychology and just performance across the board. And so I wear both whoop and whoring and I'm going to keep talking about them because I think that these technologies are freaking amazing because the, the ability to one, track your sleep I think is huge.
[01:04:28] Wearables - Recovering Effectively
[01:04:28]And then to, to track your HRV as a lens into your parasympathetic nervous system is so utterly fascinating. just to see how stressed out you are, kinda gives you a metric to understand it. And, it's, it's like this thing, when I think about it, like you've been just laying it out as if you let someone like one get more sleep.
[01:04:47] To not be as stressed out by overworking them. They're going to feel better about their life because they're going to want to feel valued, and then they're going to be able to be more productive, like an efficiency standpoint, and then they'll feel better about whatever it is that they do outside of work.
[01:05:03]I've always viewed this as a prioritization system where we like to view products as the main resource, right? Where like with automation and all this stuff nowadays, it's really buzzwordy about like we've got to do quality on our products, but we forget that the human element is so important and it's humans at the end of the day that are error correcting and making things work, like making all of the things happen and we have to refocus on what it means for quality of life for the people that do the work.
[01:05:33] Joe Vezzani: So you've got a, you've got a ring that tells you how stressed you are.
[01:05:36]Erich Wenzel: yeah. So it measures HRV, which is, stands for heart rate variability. and you basically wear it and it tracks your sleep, like how much you slept. You get, total sleep time, REM, deep sleep, all that stuff. And then it also will, give you different metrics, like resting heart rate and all that stuff.
[01:05:52] Joe Vezzani: So what do you think, what have you learned from that?
[01:05:54] Erich Wenzel: So for me, it's, it's two separate wearables. I wear two different companies to try to look at their data sets separately and see how they weigh things, which is my little dorky thing. but I've learned a lot of little things, like if I do meditation or if I work out, or if I, like if I've done massage, like I will see positive impacts in my HRV.
[01:06:16]As my nervous system is less triggered, or if I like to go drink like two or more drinks, usually my HRV falls off the cliff the next morning because you're poisoning yourself.
[01:06:27]Joe Vezzani: and when you say heart rate variability, are you talking about almost like the standard deviation of your heart rate? So if it's resting at 60.
[01:06:35] Or 50, or whatever it may be. You want to keep it as steady as humanly possible. But if you're doing these other things, then it's, it's bouncing around a lot and that is what is correct. Causing. Gotcha.
[01:06:45] Erich Wenzel: So what it does is it measures during your sleep. HRV is measured as a, root mean square, so it looks at the peaks of the time difference between the upbeats of your heart.
[01:06:55] So it measures in milliseconds. And so the higher number is better. The lower the number in milliseconds is, is more stressed cause they're more similar like heartbeats. If you think about pattern wise. So when you're, when you're activating your nervous system, your heart rate is beating at the same time interval.
[01:07:12] Basically. And you want more randomness in your heart rate, and then that'll affect your performance. It'll affect your focus. It'll affect how much you can actually like put strain on your cardiovascular system and things like that. And then the ring can actually also predict when you're getting sick up to 24 hours in advance. It's fascinating. It's a fascinating paradigm shift for me because I can wear these. I've worn them for about a year now, and I try to distill things down. I wrote an article about the basic overview of these two wearables on my website. It's called wearables meet whoop and ordering.
[01:07:46] If you're curious about diving into the overview of this stuff a little bit more, but
[01:07:51] Joe Vezzani: it's to check it out. It's
[01:07:52] Erich Wenzel: really fascinating data wise, and I think it's, it's one of these things that if you, I think if we can get people in businesses and then like some of these things have teams, like whoop has a team function.
[01:08:02] So if you have a business and you buy everyone on your team a whoop, you can look at how much they're actually sleeping and how recovered they are every day. Like
[01:08:12] Joe Vezzani: I don't know if our team would want that. That, but
[01:08:14] Erich Wenzel: yeah, I know it's a little silly.
[01:08:15] Definitely. I think it's definitely interesting. You know, any extra data I think is, is important to look at it, you know, especially with your health.
[01:08:23] Joe Vezzani: I was just wondering, kind of like long term, I've always had a, it's always been tougher. You know, you did have an Apple watch and you looked at your heart rate, you look at what you're eating, and then you do it for like a week or two weeks, and then you're like, okay, well if I just eat good and work out, I'm probably fine.
[01:08:36] Personalized Medicine and Routines
[01:08:36] Yeah. But sometimes I think it's, you know personalized medicine. Yes, it is going to be a big kind of industry. It's just, we haven't gotten enough personal data yet, I think, but a combination of kind of some of the DNA, everyone's open to giving their DNA and everything. Now it's 23andme stuff. So I think it could be interesting, but it is, it is odd to think that even like aspirin or ibuprofen like.
[01:09:02] Should I, and you both just take 200 milligrams of ibuprofen. Why wouldn't you take like 180 and then I take or one 71 like it's just kind of interesting, we just have like these blanket medicines because we just don't understand how each body works differently.
[01:09:18] Erich Wenzel: I couldn't agree more like that's, that's why I do this stuff.
[01:09:20] It's kind of like understanding too, like going back to a, the heart rate variability. My heart rate variability is, it's like very individualized per person. So if my number is lower than someone else's, it doesn't really mean much other than like mine just happens to be lower. Like you can't really compare it like resting heart rate.
[01:09:39] You can kind of compare person to person and say like, okay, your cardiovascular system is working a little bit better than another person's because of the resting heart rate. But HRV is so personalized to you that it's, you can't, it's not worth comparing it to another person. It's just like, okay, I just need to figure out how to make my HRV higher and that'll be lessening my activation to the nervous system as a stress response.
[01:10:04] Joe Vezzani: Gotcha. Yeah. Cause if your resting heart rate is zero, you're just dead.
[01:10:10] Erich Wenzel: So is there, I mean, yeah, it's an interesting paradigm of getting into this wearable stuff because I look at it from a performance standpoint of like, how do I manage my own life? And so that I'm not like pushing too hard, if that makes sense.
[01:10:23] Because I'm always kind of willing to push when I shouldn't be sometimes. And then the other thing is to also be aware of just like checking in with my body and being like, can I understand like the feeling that I'm feeling today, does that match up with what the numbers are saying? Kind of overlaying the analytical with the subjective.
[01:10:45] It's a cool thing. I don't know where it's going, but it's going somewhere and I'm excited about it because I am just, I love talking about it cause it's this weird intersection of technology and performance and how do you just be better at being better basically.
[01:11:02] Joe Vezzani: Yeah. I think it's like any other business.
[01:11:04] It's, it's more like you're into it and you're more of like a power user, you're like, you're an early adopter. but then kind of getting that out to the public would be, how do you make this passive, right? It's how do I, how do I do this? And then I'm, I'm just now getting suggestions, you know, on whether I need to eat something or go to sleep or, you know, anything else.
[01:11:26] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. The interesting thing is like the one, it'll show you a percentage like recovery from zero to 100%. So, and it colors it. So if you're like in, in like below 33%, you're in the red. And if you're above 33% and between 66 you're yellow and then above 67% you're in the green. So it's kinda like as you wear this over time, you, it makes you have behavioral changes in a good way where it's like, Oh, if I know, I know, I start to know that if I'm going to do like drinking for an easy example, I'm probably going to be in the red or like hamper my recovery for the next day.
[01:11:57] So you kind of start self-selecting for things and be like, I don't think I'll have another one, or stuff like that. Like, like you don't mean to do it, but that it's like subconscious. Like you're just like, I don't want to like do this to myself. Like it's a positive reinforcement to some degree.
[01:12:11] Joe Vezzani: Yeah you're actually seeing what's happening in real time and the damage that you're doing versus. Dealing with it the next morning and trying to go to like a steam room and drink a bunch of electrolytes.
[01:12:22] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, exactly. So, to continue on with the other questions, I love asking about books. So do you have any favorite books or books you've gifted the most?
[01:12:34] Favorite or Most Gifted Books
[01:12:34] Joe Vezzani: you know, one one that ha, you know, obviously asked to it sticks in my head is, you know, I read, I was gifted Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. When I was, I was young, I was, you know, probably 16 and a couple of the people that I, you know, I seen, I saw that book on their desk where some of the, you know, kind of most, some of the people that I respected the most at that young age, you know, and some of the internships that I had through college, I saw it kept kind of popping up.
[01:13:03] And so I read it and, you know, it had a big impact, I think on. You know, my thought process around building things, and ideas and understanding. I mean, the one thing they say. He says in that book is, you know, thoughts are things. And that was a really profound way to think about, and yet it actually goes into explaining that, you know, when you have a thought it, you know, inside of your head, you're just thinking, it's like this.
[01:13:36] Magical thing. That's this image, right? Like when you're thinking about anything, if you think about surfboard, you know, and I say, think about a surfboard. You can see that surfboard and you know, even though that doesn't seem like a real thing, it's, there's still an electrical like impulse, like pulse that happens.
[01:13:54] Like it's an actual piece of matter. But It's just, it's just tiny. but thinking about that, going like, wow, like whatever we think and whatever idea we have, we, you can build that and you can, you know, you can make it real. But I think. A lot of people just, they see too much risk. They see, Oh, I can't, I don't have the skill set to do that.
[01:14:21] Like I would need someone else, or it's too much money, or my dad's that I should be a consultant and I shouldn't start my own thing. You know, like people just have all these blocks and just that, that line, you know, and I've, I've gone back and reread that a couple times and it's, it's a combination of that piece.
[01:14:41] And then also. Persistence. You know, I think it was, I forget in God, I got to go back and read it now. It's been a couple of years. I think it was Edison and you know, it was, there was someone that wanted to work for him and, he just showed up at the office, you know, and I don't know if you can do that nowadays, but I always kind of joked with, with some of my friends, I'm like, you know, if someone's, you know, in between jobs or looking for something, like, I always had this thought, I was like, just show up.
[01:15:08] Like, what? Like. Just like for fun, like just go sit in a cube and be like, what do you need? I'll do it. I'll do it for free. And whether or not you can get in the building, but I mean, if they kick you out but, and then they kick you out and they're like, that guy just came in here and just ask what work he could do for free.
[01:15:26] Like, are you like, I'd be like, go get that guy or girl to bring them in here. We're hiring them. You know, and it just kind of like the persistence of, you know, and I ended up book, it was like, he just kept going back and going back and he's like, Nope, Nope, shut the door. And eventually they said yes. And it's just a combination of like, believing in yourself and believing in whatever idea you have and, and persisting in that book, it was like that kind of struck a chord with me.
[01:15:53] And you know, some people I think said that, you know, that Napoleon Hill didn't actually talk to those people or meet with those people or whatever. But, You know, it's the idea that rings true. And I think that really stuck with me.
[01:16:05] Erich Wenzel: Awesome. Yeah, there's a book that comes up a lot in the business world, and I, I haven't gotten around to reading it myself, but I do know many of those quotes in stories.
[01:16:13] It's, they just have like a legacy of their own, is that some of those books, you know, they, they just get talked about so much that you just kind of know the gist of them. It's good.
[01:16:22] Joe Vezzani: I'm sure you can fire up the Wikipedia page and get in, get a good feel for it.
[01:16:25] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. So my last question, I'd love to talk about this one because I think even your story is a really good example of this, but like.
[01:16:33] Like challenging skill acquisition or learning in, in formalized ways. Because you know, you, you have a really interesting story here about how you even just got into cryptocurrency, right? Like you look at your tagline and it's how you got to it is not what anyone would expect, or at least on the surface.
[01:16:49] So anything like a young person who's just entering the real world or driven, or even if there's not a young person, just anyone who's just just trying to get after it, what would you say to them.
[01:17:03] Advice to Someone Who Wants to Get Started in a New Domain
[01:17:03]Joe Vezzani: I don't think that most people really correctly assess risks. Risk. Like they don't really understand, and you know, they, they think that if they start going down this path that they're going to fall behind, right?
[01:17:20] If they're like, Oh, I have this one idea, I should really do that. That's a good idea. And then they're, you know, they, the first thing people do is they kind of bounce it off with some of their friends or bounce off their family. What are you going to get from those people? Well, you know, unless someone is so completely selfless and humble and is like, so wants you to succeed and they're empathetic, those are the people who are going to say, yeah, man, go after it.
[01:17:42] Yeah. Right. But I think most people, you know, are, unfortunately, they're gonna. They don't want you to be more successful than they are. You know? And then they're also going to just be, they just, people see the roadblocks, right? They're not, you know, as blindly optimistic. And you'd kind of have to be blindly optimistic to jump into a new venture and leave something of security.
[01:18:06]But I would say that, you know, I mean, part of my story, you know, when I went I quit a job. Like, you know, that was, I was making six figures and I was getting fast track through management and. You know, I was like, I could have, I actually saw the route to the CEO job, like I knew it and I was like, I could, I could do that.
[01:18:25] Like, you know, I'm young here. I have like, I, I knew I could do it. And it was like, that was corporate America. And I was like, well, I think I know how to solve this problem. What about this other problem over here where I start my own thing? I don't know how to solve that, so I'm going to go try to do it.
[01:18:40] But I left. I left that, those jobs to make nothing. but. You know, it was a couple years of going through that, starting up in that process. And I ended up, you know, that one, you know, for me did fail. And you know, I went back into corporate America and guess what I was now, you know, leaps and bounds ahead of everyone else around me.
[01:19:01] And I was making almost twice as much as I was making before because there was, there were skill sets that I had learned and things that I had figured out in the startup world, and suddenly you're, you know, you just leapfrog everyone. You're five, six years ahead of where you were. And so it was like, I would say to people, you just, you just gotta do it and you know, you'll figure it out and, and no one wants to take.
[01:19:27] And, you know, even though like, I'll use Gary Vee again, even though I haven't, I haven't listened to it for a long time, but, but it's because he said, you know, there's one of his quotes say. He's like, you know what, if you get the, if you get the message I'm trying to say, and you don't listen to me again, he goes, I did my job.
[01:19:42] And so I think I got that from him. But, you know, people just, they don't want to push through and they don't want to take three steps back to take 10 forward. You know, they don't want to take the pay cut or anything else cause they think that, Oh, they're not going to be able to afford this or do this with their friends or, you know, be able to, you know, and it just depends.
[01:20:03] Everyone's lives are in different places and there's families and there's other things. But I think that at any age, you know, you can, you can be an entrepreneur and you can take the risk and you're going to be. You know better off for it, and you have a lot of people who are in, I think in their low to mid twenties that maybe went to school because their parents told them they got to go to school to do this thing and they come out and they're like, Holy shit, I do not like that at all.
[01:20:27] I do not. And then, what do they think? They're like, well, should I go back to school? Should I get a master's degree? Should I do this? You know, as someone with a finance degree that's worked in advertising and sales and you know, startups and different types of startups, and now cryptocurrency, I could say that I don't, and I had a chance to go back to school.
[01:20:46] I could've got my master's in economics, said, you know it at USC. I was trying to go do that. And I was like, it just, something was telling me no. You know? And it was like, I just wanted to try other new and different things. And I think you can just learn, you can learn a lot more if you're curious, curious enough and you're trying, I, you know, it's not for everyone.
[01:21:08] I mean, some people need to go back and really reset and maybe they have some sort of specialty. Like if you're trying to go, you can't just be like a social worker randomly from having like a economics degree in social work. Like you need to go back to school for stuff and get, get your licenses and things like that.
[01:21:24] But in the business world. I think it's more about just trying new things and networking with the people that you know are, are as open as you are and want to give you opportunity. And you know, I think it was like my dad always told me it's do a good job and someone will notice.
[01:21:43] How Do You Find Your "Passion"?
[01:21:43] Erich Wenzel: So as a, as a final closing thought here, what would you say for someone like, cause you, you've mentioned entrepreneurship multiple times here and I'm sure there's someone out there who says, I don't know what my thing is though.
[01:21:54] They don't know what it is that lights them on fire or whatever, be it passion, if you call it that, which I don't like using, but how would you say like recommend someone go about finding it is what they really care about.
[01:22:08] Joe Vezzani: If you don't, if you don't know what it is at this moment, then you're not going to, it's not going to hit you like.
[01:22:16] In an hour, it's not going to hit you right away. I would say, you know, and the example I would give is someone like Elon Musk, who, you know, he of course he always wanted his is super sweet car and spaceship company, right? He always wanted those things, but he started other companies first because the market was demanding those companies and there was money to be made and there was a gap in the market at that time.
[01:22:41] So I would say. If you're trying to find a passion project, it doesn't necessarily mean that the market is going to align to that passion project. You need to, if you want to create something and maybe have kind of your first stepping stone, it's look at what the market is asking for and go deliver that to the best of your ability.
[01:23:03] And that will be the first place that you learn and kind of cut your teeth around what you're doing. Don't worry about, there's time for passion and you can always do some of your stuff on the side, whether it's, you know, any, anything else you want to do, you could still kind of hone in on those skills, but there's nothing wrong with going and creating, especially if it's within business, going and creating that.
[01:23:23] Now, if your passion is art or your passion is, I want to, you know, I want to create sculptures or carve or do some of these things like. Yeah. You might not be able to create a business around that right away, like go focus on those things that those are the things that make you happy. But I would say. Go look at what the market is asking for and then stay focused on your passion for later, especially for young entrepreneurs.
[01:23:46] If you're 24, 25 and you're, you've done the first two to three years of your work job type thing and you're like, Holy shit, this is not for me. I want to try something. But you're sitting there racking your brain about like what you want to be doing with your life and what you're passionate about.
[01:24:00] I've seen a lot of kids at that age be like, I want to, I want to learn piano and I want a skateboard. I want to do this, I want to do this. And it's like they're just, they're trying to just so many things to figure out what they're passionate about. I would say just pause and let's think about the market and what's the market asking for right now?
[01:24:17] How can you make money? How can you create a business? How can you learn? And then the passion project comes later on. Once you have the skills and you're ready to go. and I would just say stay patient. Like, you know, trust me, I was the same way at that age. I was, I was, what do I do now? Ah, you know, and you freak out cause you're just like, I'm not, like, I'm not adding value.
[01:24:38] Like this is not what I love. Like why aren't I doing what I love? And I think, I do think that school sets you up for, like, they absolutely like set you up for a disaster. Like. You like when you get your first job and you go out into the real world, it's like, wait, they should've just like, why wasn't there like Xerox copy and 101?
[01:24:55] You know, when I came out of school, it was kind of like, you know, it was at the time when like, I don't know if you remember, like, like they actually still do this, right? Like where someone likes, like ICE, you or they give you like a Smirnoff ice.
[01:25:06] Erich Wenzel: Oh yeah. Yeah. That still happens.
[01:25:08] Joe Vezzani: Like when that first came out, it was like.
[01:25:11] People were like sliding those, like in the Xerox machine, like where you'd put the paper and like I was the person who always had to like refill the paper. Same thing as refilling like the coffee at your office. No one wants to do it, but I was like, I'll just refill the paper cause everyone's selfish.
[01:25:24] Yup. And people would like put ice in there or whatever, and I'm like, just, you should just like enjoy, like enjoy some of your 20s and meeting people and understanding the world and like learning as much as humanly possible. If you're someone that doesn't know exactly what you want to do, that's fine.
[01:25:40] You know, that's okay. You're, it's, it's gonna hit you or you're going to grow into it. If you know what you want to be doing and you're like, I, I know that I need to build this and do this right now, it's like put your head down and go do it. That's great. If you know it and you can feel it, but if you can't feel it, it's go do, go learn, go figure it out.
[01:25:57] You'll figure something else out to figure out different industries. That's kind of what I did. You know, I, you know, I didn't, once the downturn hit and I was like, I'm really into finance. Like I love this. I just loved markets. I just loved understanding like every business model and how it worked. Like that was just like a weird thing.
[01:26:13] Like I was like, well, how did I make money? How do they make money? How do you make, cause that was always when I was younger, I was always like, how the fuck do you make? Like how are you actually just making money? Like you're just like, where does this come from? Like it just, it just is because when you're little I mean, we used to like to get golf balls from like the golf course there house. We'd like to sell them to the golfers for like $2 a golf ball. We'd like, you know, I was always trying to figure out how to do that. but I've always been curious enough to say, you know, I'm going to try this thing and I'm going to try this thing, and if I don't like that, then I'm gonna try this.
[01:26:47] And not to the extent of like, you don't want to be one of those people that, you know, I see a lot of, a lot of resumes and some people, they can't help it, but it's like hopping around super quick,
[01:26:58] Erich Wenzel: like six months, six months, three months to the job, and they're just hopping around.
[01:27:03] Joe Vezzani: Yeah. And it's like, I, you know, I, I never wanted to be one of those people.
[01:27:08] And you know, even at my first job, it was, I was there for almost four years and I think back to, I was like, nowadays, that's like a really long time to stay somewhere, which is crazy. Even in advertising, which it's like seven years of lifetime at those places, people hop. But I do feel like it. You know, loyal, understanding, loyalty and that that is how a lot of a lot of times I think people don't understand is, is you can get ahead through, through doing those things.
[01:27:33] If someone knows you're going to be there and you're putting in the time, it's not necessarily like, do you have a family and are you going to be set up in this tone for X amount of years? It's like, no. Did you go above and beyond and you show up? Maybe, you know act, like if you have a company party and everyone's drinking all night and going out, like I made it a point, like I was there before anyone.
[01:27:52] Like every time I would always be the first person back in the office. Cause it was like you always wanted to be the kind of the reliable piece. And I actually, you know, especially in the business world when it's like maybe there's a lot of those things that everyone, everyone could do what you're doing right now, right?
[01:28:09] Like what separates you from the, from everyone else. And it's like intangible things that separate people. And if you understand those and you're consistent with those, you're always going to be able to move ahead.
[01:28:22] Erich Wenzel: Well, Joe, this is awesome. You're a truly insightful person and you have so much knowledge and we could be here all day just unpacking.
[01:28:30] I seriously think it's such a treat for me to be able to talk to people like this and just get on a phone call and use technology like this. And so where can people connect with you or follow along? We'll have links for LunarCrush, in the blog post when this podcast goes live. But any other way people can get ahold of you, go ahead and share it.
[01:28:49] Joe Vezzani: Yeah, no, I mean, if people want to check us out, it's just lunarcrush.com. You can follow us on Twitter at lunar crush and yeah, we'd love to have you learn and be a part of this, this new space that I think is, is beneficial to the whole world and is beneficial to everyone to, to understand and take, take control back of their life and their finances.
[01:29:10] Erich Wenzel: That's awesome. So what I'll do too is I'm going to link the, a couple of the most common. Pages from like Bitcoin and things like that for the, different cryptocurrencies so that people can go from my website directly to those specific ones to see those pages. Because you've really cool bio sections on those.
[01:29:26] I was kind of looking at them as you were explaining it. It's really cool. So I just want to, I'm going to do it for my own good because I just love learning about this stuff, at least as a kind of get to like 60% understanding and things, so I can go explain it to other people, you know, Feeding Curiosity at its finest.
[01:29:41]Awesome. Thanks, Joe.
[01:29:44] Joe Vezzani: Thanks Erich. Take care of a man.
"Everybody wants to eat, but Few Will Hunt."
Today on the podcast with Joey Bowen and Drew Beech, co-founders of the apparel brand and community Few Will Hunt.
Joey and Drew spent their daily commutes through the gritty streets of Philadelphia on the phone for a year straight.
On these calls, they talked about business and life — especially the trends of self-entitlement and shortcut-seeking they witnessed in society.
These trends made them feel alone in an ever-softening world. “Are we the only ones that still believe in the power of hard work?” Drew asked. Joey responded, “It’s like we say at my hunting cabin — everybody wants to eat, but few will hunt.”
This statement perfectly summed up their frustrations with society. It became their mantra.