Corey McCarthy: Vulnerability, Starting Over and Checking Your Ego
“ I’m going to be as honest as possible so that the relationships I do have in my life are as meaningful as possible. So that I’m no longer like with you but alone. Right. That’s how you end up feeling lonely in a room full of people.”
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In this conversation, we are joined by Corey McCarthy. I wanted to have a conversation with after watching the film Just Mercy. At the time, I was interested in learning more about the prison system and someone who was a part of the prison system. After setting up to record, COVID-19 swept the world in about a week. This shifted our discussion to talk around the work Corey has done to change his mindset and, in many ways, start over.
Corey McCarthy lives in Buffalo, New York with his girlfriend and three children. He is the founder and owner of McCarthy, I.E., a company that specializes in the restoration of historic churches and architectural homes. At age seven, Corey was attacked by a stranger in a public place, which altered his life significantly. One traumatic event led to the next, the result being years of addiction, visits in rehab facilities, jails, mental inpatient services, homelessness, and eventually an extended stay of seven-plus years in N.Y.S correctional system. Defying the odds, Corey has endured and overcome. He embraced a new narrative of gratitude and hope. Because of the changes he’s made, he has built a strong business with a family of employees. He has built a loving home. His life’s work is most certainly the time he spends on a daily basis doing whatever he can to help others change their narrative, anyone who feels damaged, dirty, alone, or just plain not good enough. This is where he derives true meaning and purpose.
Listen to Corey with Peter Attia here. I highly recommend this if you want to hear more of his background.
Connect with Corey:
Twitter @coreymccarthyie
Show notes:
[00:06:29] The Choice to be busy
[00:08:58] Alienating people and being in places of Fear
[00:13:06] Action Words - Mindfulness and Meditation
“When I hear mindfulness in like 2020, I'm like, I kind of get turned off cause it's, it's like that. It's a, it's like when people say all the things and stuff, I'm like, Oh, what the fuck? yeah. So like, it's good to hear that you're, it's good to hear that.
Like you're doing those things because they're like, they're action words. Right? like mindfulness is like, it's an action. It's not like a cute thing. and it's difficult. Like, it's interesting because what keeps coming to mind for me is, if you ask an average person who hasn't practiced meditation, just sit down and meditate, they're going to feel like they're going absolutely crazy, right?
Because all the thoughts are going to kind of fly through their head. And, and in some ways, I feel like that's what a lot of Americans are feeling right now, is as if they're like, they've been told to meditate and it's like, hold up, dude. Like, You know, like I have a ping pong game going on in my head right now, and you're telling me to slow down.
Because that's how we live, right? We live kind of what's next, what's next, what's next?”
[00:15:47] Exploring mindfulness and connecting to others
[00:18:29] Definites and Absolutes
[00:20:25] When you feel overwhelmed and unfocused what do you fall back on?
“So, two different levels of severity. I always come back to routine. I don't want to quote anybody off the top of my head cause I forget exactly who it was. But, it was a psychologist. I know, recently was saying that routine, like as far as sleep patterns and like brushing your teeth, simple stuff and it doesn't matter when that routine takes place, only that it takes place around the same time every day, lower your levels of anxiety, helps you sleep better and things like that. And, you know, I think especially today, and I learned this. I learned this when I was doing eight years in prison.
I learned that pretty much my entire life was out of control. And today it feels a little out of control because I don't really know what's going to happen with my employees next week or next month. You know, some of our contracts, if the market crashes, which hopefully it won't, but if it does, people aren't gonna want to give me $40,000 or $75,000 to remodel their kitchen.
Like, and I understand that so I have to figure out something new. But how do I get back some semblance of control? Which is, which kind of combats fear by still getting up at like, you know, instead of five o'clock, I'll get up at six o'clock in the morning, seeing as I don't have to go to work.
I'll still brush my teeth and I'll still journal, you know, and I'll still make coffee. And I'll still take the dogs out and get some exercise. Like, like I'll work out in the morning just as if I would before and, and you know, I'm going to screw up. Like that's kind of the part I think a lot of people, Have a hard time with is like, you know, it's like a cheat day when you, when you have a diet or whatever, but like there's going to be a day in the next couple of days where I sit down and I'm sad and I'm like, I'm just going to watch fucking Netflix all day and that's it and I'm not going to feel good about it when I'm done.
But I still have, I can still get back on the horse.”
[00:23:44] Stopping the negative spiral or starting over
[00:25:01] Most worthwhile investments outside of money?
[00:26:05] Cultivating deep relationships
The Go-Giver by Bob Burg. John David Mann
[00:28:02] How do you become vulnerable?
I Don't Want to Talk About It: Overcoming the Secret Legacy of Male Depression by Terrance Real
[00:33:40] Releasing emotions
[00:35:54] Who do I want to be?
[00:38:28] Esteemable Acts and being of service
[00:41:36] Sharing knowledge for everyone
“It's the mundane things. It kind of goes back to like what you said again about like when you fall off if it's Bezos or Bill Gates or somebody that's telling you, or even like Peter Attia or somebody that's telling you something, it's like, Oh yeah, because you are this person.
Like you can do that, but not in this life. Interestingly enough, this crisis has made me realize that like, so world stage like, is alluring as I think it is for everybody to kind of be somewhat famous or especially now, you know, and like in today's day and age, is it really important?
You know, I mean, if you can reach more people with good information, awesome. Right? I mean. That's why I said books are so important to me, but, and in podcasts and things of that nature, but like being, being of service and kind and you know, present in your home and in your life is way more important than like getting on a stage.
And as a matter of fact, I think it's how you end up on the fucking stage is by like being present and important and kind. And, and. Courteous in your day to day life. Right? Like you don't get there by being a Dick, you know? Yeah. Maybe some do. Who knows?”
[00:45:30] The good and the bad of COVID-19
[00:47:07] Shared global experience
[00:48:40] The power of reflection
[00:52:26] Getting started
[00:54:44] How do you know you should try?
[00:56:54] Keeping the ego in check
[00:58:53] Gifted books or recommended books
“So one of the cool things I do, with a bunch of my friends are guys I've met in prison as I send them books and then I ask them. If they'll write like a one-page book review on it. I mean honestly, it's a really cool thing to do for a number of reasons. One, I get reminded of the book or I learn something new about the book, but also like, if you have the time to do a book report, you remember that a little bit more than you would if you'd just read it.”
Hope For the Flowers: A parable about life, revolution, hope, caterpillars & butterflies by Trina Palus
The Secret by Byron Preiss
[01:00:48] Since getting out of prison what new belief or mindset has positively impacted your life?
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Full Transcript - Corey McCarthy: Vulnerability, Starting Over and Checking Your Ego
[00:04:29] Erich Wenzel: Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Feeding Curiosity and today's guests, we're joined by Corey McCarthy. Hi Corey.
[00:04:35]Corey McCarthy: Hi Erich.
[00:04:37] Erich Wenzel: Thanks for doing this. And I know this is out of the blue to kind of just get an email from me saying, I listened to a previous podcast. So for full context, Corey was on a podcast that I listened to regularly and shared on the website, which is Peter Attia's The Drive.
[00:04:52] And Corey shared a lot of his background there, but I want this conversation to stand alone so we can kind of unpack it, but just kind of give people the overview of your story and like, what are you doing now?
[00:05:08] Corey McCarthy: Well first, and foremost, thanks for having the curiosity to send out an email and see if you'd get something back.
[00:05:14] I honestly loved sharing my story, as uncomfortable as it may be sometimes, because I think it gives people permission. To have their own story and their own pain or whatever. So I'm from Buffalo, New York. you just want a quick overview. I'm from Buffalo. I've had a pretty traumatic use, sprinkled in with some fun stuff, you know, and ended up with some heavy drug addiction and then prison, for pretty much my entire twenties, I spent in New York state prison system.
[00:05:46] March 31st, 2020 will be nine years that I've been out of prison. And, I'm currently in my backyard in Buffalo, New York in a home I own, due to COVID-19. I have four or five employees that are laid off, but we're going to figure it out. I have a thriving business and a beautiful family and, you know, I don't prescribe to be any like magician or guru of anything, but, I have a certain method that I've followed and, and it's worked to dramatically change my life and give me a lot of peace and happiness and like you and like, why you do this. like what you just said, like, I feel like there's, there's progress and there's regress and there's no such thing as gress. Okay. So that's the nutshell.
[00:06:29] The Choice to be busy
[00:06:29] Erich Wenzel: Great. Yeah. I don't want to just dive in super fast, just kind of give people a quick overview, but I think your story is super pertinent and honestly, today's situation, I reached out to you if for completely different reasons initially, but now since this COVID-19 has kind of taken the entire world.
[00:06:45] And forced us to reimagine or reevaluate our priorities. Your story I think is even more important given the context because it's forcing most of us to realize that a lot of our life is the choice to be busy in many ways and to have the brakes be, you know, almost halted completely on that front. Is scary for a lot of people.
[00:07:11] You know, I think a lot about the people who are not prepared for this, who are not sure about what is happening or you know, what tomorrow holds for them. And you know, I think someone like yours, which we're going to start diving into is, is one of those stories that can give people hope in a time where it doesn't seem so hopeful.
[00:07:29] Corey McCarthy: Yeah. Yeah. I agree with you fully. I mean, when we initially talked about this, it was, you know, this wasn't even in play COVID-19 wasn't even in play. And now it seems really appropriate just because, for myself, I'm finding myself in a kind of a scary place where I've been moving and moving and moving and I'm told to sit still and I'm sitting still, but I'm also finding my place in this kind of fear driven, mindset where.
[00:07:59]it's as if, because I have no idea what tomorrow's going to bring. You know, the, the fact that everything's changed and I didn't know that when I was in prison. And I didn't know that the day I got out of prison and that there were so many times in my life that I didn't know what tomorrow was going to bring.
[00:08:16] But did I employ certain things that ended up really successful and really, And so it's like I'm remembering now myself that, Oh, okay, I know this place. Like it may not have had the same name, but it definitely had the same feeling.
[00:08:34] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, absolutely. So where do you want to start with this?
[00:08:37] Like with your story and like, cause you know this, I know that this story goes all the way back to childhood for you. And so. You know, as you're reflecting on these scary times, uncertain times that we're in currently, that the entire world is feeling, how does that relate to your experiences that you are able to pull on and to kind of now redefine in some way?
[00:08:58] Alienating people and being in places of Fear
[00:08:58] Corey McCarthy: It's interesting because sometimes I don't. I don't want to get too deep into the story of like, so I mean, you know, and I know, but I'm, I was like attacked and molested when I was seven in a public place, and I can say that without much feeling or shame because I've done a lot of work around it, but a lot of times I don't want to get into that kind of thing because it can alienate people too, right?
[00:09:20] Like somebody that hasn't had that type of trauma would be like, Oh, that like, he's, you know, it's different. and so if anything, it seems more. In line with like, you know, March 23rd or 24th of 2020 to kind of go with like, being in places of fear because in all honesty, I think like, I'm a big believer in that pain is relative and fear like emotion is relative, right?
[00:09:47] Even as far as like, exercise. like pain and working out as relative. If you do one pull up and it's your first polyp ever, it's going to be painful. If I do 10, it's going to be painful for me because I'm used to doing pull ups. Right? But we get the same gain. I just have to do more of it. and so like, somebody like me with the traumas that I've had, it's like I may have to go through a little bit of, it's something more painful to feel that, But like that being said, I think like maybe starting today and then kind of, you know, like maybe checking in with each other, like what's going on a year in your life was coven 19 and then working it back to like what we can relate. That too today, too, right? Yeah, absolutely.
[00:10:32] Erich Wenzel: I think that makes the most sense because it's, I think it's less about the, the overall story and more about these drawn parallels to unpack the story and say, this is similar in that respect and it's through shared pain sometimes that we realize that even though we can feel isolated, that we can actually are all experiencing something to some degree or another. You know, I, I talked to a lot of my friends, I haven't had a lot of friends who are in the military or talk to people who were in the military and they talked about the same type of thing about trauma or pain where they say, don't go full vet.
[00:11:10] Because their level of stress is so much higher if they, especially if they've been in a combat situation and I would assume that your level of stress has been pushed to some sort of combat, like a situation in retrospect, but it's not exactly the same. So it's a similar idea. There is again, it's the shared relatives across spectrums that really help.
[00:11:32]And for me, like my general experience in this situation is I've done a lot of work in cultivating, you know, using like mindfulness or meditation, a lot of these buzzwords that have been in self-help for probably the last 10 to 20 years at this point. but haven't really gained popularity probably in the last five or ten.
[00:11:50] And I've been really leaning on these. it really feels like for me, this is kind of where it's like, okay, these are, this is the point where a lot of these tools that people have been saying, it's good and you should be doing them. And now it's like, this is the true test. Like all these things that everyone has been saying, do they actually really work in this time when everybody's not interacting with people face to face, you're really not supposed to go outside.
[00:12:12] There's not much to do anymore. So like for me, it's just kind of not going star crazy. Like, thankfully I still live at home. I have my brother around, I have my parents around. So my social circle isn't completely crumbled. I know that if I was living at home alone, it would probably be a lot different.
[00:12:30] but right now it's kinda like I get off of work. I then just make myself go on a run or do some sort of home workout and then I kind of go on with the rest of my day, kind of jump online and talk to friends over the internet somehow. Or just kind of interact socially in other ways like some sort of outlet.
[00:12:47] Maybe it's reading, maybe it's an audio book, maybe it's a podcast. So I don't know if you can relate to any of those things that I could talk about. Since you said you own your own business, so you can relate to it as like from the business aspect, how this has shifted for you as your own, like a small business owner, because that's a really uncertain time for, for small business right now.
[00:13:06] Action Words - Mindfulness and Meditation
[00:13:06]Corey McCarthy: yeah, so I think, like it's good to hear other you know, being home with your brother and your family, and the things like like you said, I think because you're from Chicago and I'm from like New York or the East coast, it's like when I hear things like, you know, like mindfulness, I love mindfulness. Like I practiced yoga and meditation when I was in prison.
[00:13:28] and, and I still try to, but like at the same time. When I hear mindfulness in like 2020, I'm like, I kind of get turned off cause it's, it's like that. It's a, it's like when people say all the things and stuff, I'm like, Oh, what the fuck? yeah. So like, it's good to hear that you're, it's good to hear that.
[00:13:46] Like you're doing those things because they're like, they're action words. Right? like mindfulness is like, it's an action. It's not like a cute thing. and it's difficult. Like, it's interesting because what keeps coming to mind for me is, if you ask an average person who hasn't practiced meditation, just sit down and meditate, they're going to feel like they're going absolutely crazy, right?
[00:14:07] Because all the thoughts are going to kind of fly through their head. And, and in some ways, I feel like that's what a lot of Americans are feeling right now, is as if they're like, they've been told to meditate and it's like, hold up, dude. Like, You know, like I have a ping pong game going on in my head right now, and you're telling me to slow down.
[00:14:27]Because that's how we live, right? We live kind of what's next, what's next, what's next? And, yeah, it's interesting because like I th one of the things you heard on the podcast with Peter and it comes to mind when you started speaking, my daughter wrote in a high school. And actually, it was like a college acceptance essay.
[00:14:47] She wrote that we were all tethered together through our pain. and it doesn't necessarily have to be pain, but she went on to write that. as long as we don't share that pain, as long as we like to walk past each other in the supermarket and try to pretend like everything's fine, but we're holding our breath.
[00:15:04] Like, we don't know that other person. We're not connecting to that other person. We're actually pushing them away. And when we can connect, like when we can say, dude, like I'm like trying to meditate in the middle of this thing is absolutely, you know, it's like on the edge of impossible. Right? So, yeah.
[00:15:25] It's like, I'm super happy for the opportunity to talk to you just because I dig connecting to people, you know what I mean? Like I take that it's. I sat on Peter's podcast too, and it's one of the things I say an awful lot is, I want to be rich and people, you know, like, I'd love to come visit you and after this is all over, someday that excites me.
[00:15:45] Yeah. Cool man.
[00:15:47] Exploring mindfulness and connecting to others
[00:15:47] Erich Wenzel: Like, yeah, like for me, this. So just to kind of fill in the backstory. So I'm an engineer or I wasn't or still am an engineer, but now in a sales position because of doing this podcasting stuff, because I was like, okay, if I want to be a technical person, I want to learn how to communicate better and then might as well do that by getting paid while I do this thing on the side.
[00:16:07]But initially a lot of this, this road that I've gone down is what you would broadly consider like wellness or self-help. I knew inside myself, I was that type of person who was go, go, go. All of the time. And when someone would say meditation to me, I would immediately think, you know, monk sitting on top of a pillow, or, or monk somewhere, you know, just a totally zenned out person.
[00:16:33] And I was just like, I don't get it. Like, it just didn't make sense to me at all. And so it took many, many podcasts and many books to listen to. And then finally it was like, okay, if CEOs and people who are supposed to be the busiest people in the world are making five minutes, 10 minutes, 20 minutes a day to make time for this thing of doing nothing.
[00:16:55] Right? Like that's what people assume it is. then why can't I, right? Like if these most important people in the world are figuring out how to do nothing, then I can figure it out too. And that's not to say it's easy or anything like that, or that I'm still not trying to figure out how to do it, but it's also like using it in other ways.
[00:17:11] Like for me, going on a run and looking at it like a bug or a butterfly or something that I see across, you know, just randomly they're staring at a cloud that can be considered mindfulness to some group degree. So for me it's like a lot of this has just been my way of exploring the world and how I've been able to just catalog.
[00:17:32] My own trajectory and then just saying, here's what works. And then maybe it works for someone else. And if it doesn't, then they can throw it in the garbage.
[00:17:42] Corey McCarthy: Yeah. I agree with you. I mean, mindfulness is actually much simpler than we make it seem and I actually like to hear somebody, anybody, you, especially in the moment, say. You know, if this person can do it, like, why shouldn't I give it a try? And I, that goes back to the progress, regress and gress thing.
[00:18:01] Like, one of my role models is a really goofy 65 year old painter, and he's painted like really noxious, fumes his whole life. So he's kind of burnt out. But he told me a long time ago, he said, you know, never think you know, the best way to do anything. huh. Because. You know, cause you're going to think you have the answers. And so like anytime anybody says, well, I don't necessarily believe that this is going to be better, but why not give it a try? And that's like, that's where real growth I think happens.
[00:18:29] Definites and Absolutes
[00:18:29] Erich Wenzel: I totally agree with that because it's a lot of the, a lot of the things that I've tried in my life are when I've given myself the permission to even try.
[00:18:39]And breaking down those self prescribed. Boundaries to say, Oh, I'm not X, or I'm not Y, because that closes the door before you even give yourself the opportunity to even grow or know that you even don't like it. Like a lot of, I think a lot of us boxed herself in. Yeah. Before we even attempt anything.
[00:19:01] And I think that is inadvertently shooting a lot of us in the foot and it's just disingenuous for most of us. It's part of the reason why this is called Feeding Curiosity, because I. Don't like categories realistically. I like to be as well rounded as possible. I like to look at the world and say, why can't we mix, you know, a, all the way over here and then mix Z all the way down at the end and see where the skill overlap comes that you wouldn't even expect it otherwise.
[00:19:31] You know, pulling random threads or being able to learn from someone that, you know, you may have thought you'd never have anything in common.
[00:19:39] Corey McCarthy: It's an engineering mindset in some ways. I like it. Yeah. it's pretty cool, man but most people don't think like that, sadly. and I didn't for an awfully long time.
[00:19:48] I think that's where we get into trouble is like definiteness and absolutes, I think as a whole, you know, there's certain things that are definitely, are absolutely not okay as far as like, you know, racism is absolutely not okay. And, you know, You know, and we could go on. But as far as like, you know, I definitely know the right way to do anything that's just in ridiculousness.
[00:20:10] yeah. So, I mean, I just had an idea, and pardon me if, I'm out of bounds or anything, but, so feeding curiosity, like, I guess, I guess one way to start like unpacking would be, just like, ask me anything, you know, Yeah.
[00:20:25] When you feel overwhelmed and unfocused what do you fall back on?
[00:20:25] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, absolutely. So I guess the best place to start would be if you had anything, like when you feel overwhelmed or unfocused, cause it's really pertinent to the time, but just in general, what do you do?
[00:20:37] Like what is your default for you to kind of realize that, Hey, maybe I'm burning myself out right now, or I know I'm not, you know, operating at my peak here, so maybe you know, what do you do then.
[00:20:52] Corey McCarthy: Yes. So, two different levels of severity. I always come back to routine. I think, I don't want to quote anybody off the top of my head cause I forget exactly who it was. But, it was a psychologist. I know, recently was saying that routine, like as far as sleep patterns and like brushing your teeth, simple stuff.
[00:21:16] and it doesn't matter when that routine takes place, only that it takes place around the same time every day, lowers your levels of anxiety, helps you sleep better and things like that. And, you know, I think especially today, and I learned this. I learned this when I was doing eight years in prison.
[00:21:35] Right. but I learned that pretty much my entire life was out of control. And today it feels a little out of control because I don't really know what's going to happen with my employees next week or next month. You know, some of our contracts, if the market crashes, which hopefully it won't, but if it does, people aren't gonna want to give me $40,000 or $75,000 to remodel their kitchen.
[00:21:56] Like, and I understand that so I have to figure out something new. But how do I get back some semblance of control? Which is, which kind of combats fear by still getting up at like, you know, instead of five o'clock, I'll get up at six o'clock in the morning, seeing as I don't have to go to work.
[00:22:20] I'll still brush my teeth and I'll still journal, you know, and I'll still make coffee. And I'll still take the dogs out and get some exercise. Like, like I'll work out in the morning just as if I would before and, and you know, I'm going to screw up. Like that's kind of the part I think a lot of people, Have a hard time with is like, you know, it's like a cheat day when you, when you have a diet or whatever, put like there's going to be a day in the next couple of days where I sit down and I'm sad and I'm like, I'm just going to watch fucking Netflix all day and that's it and I'm not going to feel good about it when I'm done.
[00:22:56] But I still have, I can still get back on the horse. Right. I don't have to continue that process. Like I can still, so to answer your question, like it's definitely routine. and it's just the routine of like investing in my day and investing in myself, even though they may see, Even though the things that I'm doing may seem trivial at the time, like what are you going to work out for it?
[00:23:16] Like you're not going to be on the beach anytime soon. I'm working out to make myself feel better, not to look better. You know, I'm brushing my teeth to try to have a little bit more control over an uncontrollable situation.
[00:23:29]Erich Wenzel: I think that makes a lot of sense. Cause I, I've been doing the same thing, like even though my routine is.
[00:23:33] Is more or less the same, or at least the visual is the same. I still kind of follow the same thing. It's like, all right, after this time, you say you go to the gym, so you go work out outside or whatever after work.
[00:23:44] Stopping the negative spiral or starting over
[00:23:44] For you, like when you fall off the horse, like you said, is how you get yourself to.
[00:23:51] Get back on it. Cause I think that's one of the hardest things people have in general, is they say they're going to do something and they follow that. You know, they, they're really gung ho about it for maybe a week or two. And then they mess up one day and then they immediately break themselves so heavily and say they're a failure and they're never going to, you know, that negative spiral takes over very quickly for a lot of people.
[00:24:10] And so they don't, you know, commit to the long term process. So how would you, how do you give yourself the okay to be able to get back on the horse after it's a good day?
[00:24:22] Corey McCarthy: That's a really good question. And, I have to, I have to think about it, because, you know, I've I can relate to the, to the negative self talk, and I can relate to, yeah. Devaluing, you know, like through, through negative self talk, like deep valuing myself and then, then in turn, devaluing the process.
[00:24:44] Right. Yeah. So I think, you know, I don't want to answer that like, just Willy nilly. So, if we can come back to it, you know, like throughout the course of the conversation, because there's, it's a really important point. Yeah. that you, and it's a really important question that you make.
[00:24:59] Erich Wenzel: We can, we can circle around to it.
[00:25:01] Most worthwhile investments outside of money?
[00:25:01]So from there we could go into kind of like, what do you find yourself that has been the most useful investment of your time, like you mentioned before, like investing in people like you want to be people rich and things like that, where, what have you found it's like pays the most dividends outside of like monetary, for like quality of life.
[00:25:22]Corey McCarthy: Oh, Geez, there's so many. but it would definitely be in relationships. I mean, everybody doesn't have, everybody doesn't have the same guests. Right? Like a surgeon may not be able to do what you do as far as sales, most of the surgeons I know aren't the best at talking to people.
[00:25:41] and they're not in the business of selling anything, you know? But I, you know, one of the things I think for me that's been really, really valuable was reading. and it's something that I don't do a ton of today, but the most important thing in my life by far is, human relationships.
[00:26:01] Yeah. How have you fired the one thing that I've, I go ahead.
[00:26:05] Cultivating deep relationships
[00:26:05] Erich Wenzel: How have you developed your ability to, I'm going to use a very like scientific word, but cultivate relationships and foster good connections with people. I think it's, especially in this day and age and again, heightened due to the circumstances.
[00:26:21] We have a lack of in depth relationships around us. You know, a lot of us are feeling some sort of existential loneliness where we're stuck in our hamster wheel, so to speak, where we, you know, all you do is go to work and then maybe you go to the gym. But. You can kind of exist with a pair of headphones on for most of your day and never actually speak to another human being outside of like a business call.
[00:26:43] Corey McCarthy: Yeah. No, that makes, that makes complete sense. And I think one of the things that I've been told is similar to a super power for me is that I'm willing to share who I am or what's happened to me, and in a strong way with people, but usually to be helpful to them. there's a number of books that I've read, On human relationships. One being like the Go Giver. It was a really good book, but it's how to give up yourself. I think the most important thing is and a lot of ways it's vulnerability and then treating people with respect. I've said this before and, and I really like it. and I don't know where the fuck it came from, but it's, I don't need to respect your views.
[00:27:29] I don't need to respect your values. I don't need to respect very much about you to show you respect. And so, you know, like those two things, coupled together, like I'll show you respect just because you're a human being. And then on top of that, I'll show you myself in the hopes that you can then show me your true self so that we can actually, going back to my daughter's comment, tether ourselves together through our vulnerability. Yeah.
[00:28:02] How do you become vulnerable?
[00:28:02] Erich Wenzel: That's really important because, it's one of those things that where, how have you been able to become vulnerable? I think there's a lot of societal things there that limit our ability. And especially as men too, being vulnerable is incredibly difficult. Sharing pain.
[00:28:22] Corey McCarthy: Absolutely.
[00:28:22] Erich Wenzel: One thing. How have you learned to do that even because that's, again, that's not a very common thing. And like I said, even though I'm not very old, it's one of the things that I've tried to work on for my own sake, because bottling things up is never a good thing.
[00:28:38]Corey McCarthy: This is a place I'm actually really comfortable with now, and it's also a very difficult place. So it kind of, I'm going to circle all the way back to when I was younger and I had gotten abused. And at some point I was hanging out with my friends when we were all getting drunk on like the train tracks.
[00:28:54] And I think I felt, I felt like I, there was an opening for me to share the pain that I was in from what had happened to me as a young man. And I did. And everybody kind of made a joke out of it. because, you know, we were kids and we were drunk. Like that wasn't obviously the time or the place that..
[00:29:10]Yeah. And, and, and, and I learned in that moment, like, I, at some point, I feel most men learn at some point too, you know, don't cry or I'll give you something to cry about. Toughen up. you know, w whatever, however you want to say it. You know, we learned that kind of, Emotions are for girls or what you know, and the fact is that yesterday I was on a zoom call with a bunch of guys that were in a group and it was on me.
[00:29:39] It was my turn to kind of lead that group. And the question I was asked was like, what are you feeling in the moment? And it was a lot of frustration and fear and things of that nature. And, somebody asked me, well, what do you want to do and what did I want to do? I wanted to, I wanted to scream, right?
[00:29:56] Like in that moment, that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to screen and I was in my attic, my attic, and my house is our bedroom and my stepson was downstairs and my wife was downstairs. And so I grabbed a pillow and I screamed into that pillow. Somebody asked me if I wanted to do that, right.
[00:30:14] They said, would you want to grab a pillow? And I was embarrassed as all hell to do that. I wanted to, and I wanted to be released from doing it. So there was like a place in there where it was like, I could have very easily said, no, no, no, I'm good. And that's what we do, right? No, I'm good. Hey Erich, how are you doing today?
[00:30:32] Oh, I'm good. Are you really in the middle of Corona? You're fucking good. Okay. That seems a little odd, but all right. yeah, let's get a drink, you know? No, I, I screamed into that pillow and I, I, I'll tell you, dude, like I screamed once and I wanted to put the pillow down and I did. And the guy was like, Hey.
[00:30:50] Sounds like there might be a little bit more. I streamed a couple more times and he was right. He was right.
[00:30:57] Erich Wenzel: That's so good.
[00:30:58] Corey McCarthy: And instantly my face like you're laughing right now. Like the muscles in my face relaxed a little bit, right? Like I realized internally rather than like in my head, but internally my body realized like, no, actually everything's okay.
[00:31:13] Like in this second, everything's actually okay right now. Like there's no need for fight. There's no need for flight, and there's no need to freeze at this moment. You're safe. but it, you know, the paradox of it is that it comes from actually opening up. Now, you can't just open up to everybody, right? Like, I don't suggest opening up at the bar, you know what I mean?
[00:31:36] and, and like, what you're doing with your podcast is like finding spaces for things. And so you have to find that space out there. I mean, there's a number of organizations. There's, every man spelled with one E V R Y M A N.com. Great organization, ton of press locally. I mean nationally, and they've just started doing online men's groups, zoom calls because of the current culture.
[00:32:02] But there's a number of those out there. and I would encourage men to find those because that's awesome. Those have given me much stronger relationships. Yeah.
[00:32:13] Erich Wenzel: I wound up reading because of Peter Attia. I read the book, I don't want to talk about Terrence Real. And
[00:32:18] I don't, yeah, I don't want to talk about, yeah, right.
[00:32:21] It's one of those funny things. They, everybody would all, I would say the title and they're like, wait, what? And then I was like, no, that's the title of the book. It's like, Oh, okay. And like I'm not diagnosed with anything or had any sort of issues on that, on that end of the spectrum or anything like that.
[00:32:35] But I got a ton of value from just the collective experience and just how these. Events manifest themselves for people you know, and then that you bury that pain and then when you tell yourself, I'm never going to be like that, it just creates a cycle that you then inadvertently like, it's like a self fulfilling prophecy that I wind up.
[00:32:57] I don't know. I just think it, it just would solve so many more. So much of our societal problems in this weird gender divide where it's like certain, you know, because you're a men, you should be strong and tough. And then because you're a woman, you should be, you know, delicate and, and need saving or something like that, you know, to use the old school terminologies.
[00:33:17]It's just really disingenuous, I think for everybody involved, because you wind up chopping off a whole range of emotion that you should have access to that you just don't learn how to use. It's like a toolbox, right? It's kind of the way I think of it. It's like, yeah, you don't, you just like never get a chance to play with these tools and they just know atrophy it's like not working out realistically.
[00:33:40] Releasing emotions
[00:33:40] Corey McCarthy: Yeah. yeah, they, It affects, it affects your life in ways that are unseen until you open that box back up. Right. Like, interestingly enough. Like if you, if you print. So, so eventually, had I not yelled at that pillow or had the tools that I have to like to breathe, like I know that breathing can actually calm my nervous system, which then tells my brain that I am okay.
[00:34:06]But if I don't have these tools and I don't like to do that. What ends up happening is eventually I'm going to yell at somebody in my life or be short with one of my employees or my dog, or, you know, my dad was an amazing man and is an amazing man, but there was times when I was young where I watched him, you know, get a little wild with the dog.
[00:34:26] It's like, how could this guy, I'm like, I can't imagine this guy today getting crazy with the dog, but you know, he was under pressure and. Like he, there was nobody he was going to go talk to about that. He wasn't going to go to any of his friends and be like, you know, I feel like I'm losing my mind, or I feel like I have a ball in my chest that just wants to jump out of my throat or, and because of that, you know, like.
[00:34:50] There's always some manifestation of that emotion somewhere else and you just don't, I don't want to talk about it usually means I'm going to show you as opposed to, I'm going to tell you,
[00:35:01] Erich Wenzel: that's a really good way of putting it. I never thought of it that way, but that's, yeah, that really is true. for you, it has, how has this affected your ability to interact, not just in any aspect of your life, you know, even as a boss, as a husband or partner, and even as a parent, I think it, you know, the, these things we don't realize how it gives you an ability to pause, I guess is probably the easiest way to explain it. You know, to not just say, you know, maybe someone's being annoying to you or whatever, and you just immediately do that first thing that snaps into your mind.
[00:35:39] You know, where you have an outburst. yeah. I think a lot of these tools wind up giving you this ability to pause and say, I would normally react to this way. But I'm going to choose not to. Ha. How has that manifested for you?
[00:35:54] Who do I want to be?
[00:35:54] Corey McCarthy: Yeah. So great question. And on top of it, it brings me back to an answer from your original question, about the self-talk, right? Like when you do fall because, all right. So. Here's one of the first questions I want to ask myself in this, you know, current climate world, is who do I want to be?
[00:36:18] Right? like, who do I want to be today? and now I can be the guy who watches, it's like a nurse Jackie all day long, and then feels like a drug addict when I turn the lights off at night, or I can get up and I can build something or do something constructive, right? But there's going to be the day that I do the thing that I don't want to do.
[00:36:37] There's going to be the day, due to him being like prolific as I might seem. I think so. I shaped my six, nine, my 18 year old daughter, I came home, we got into an argument. He was going to move out again and she had no plan and all this other stuff. And, She got real mouthy with me and I was like, you better watch your fucking mouth. Like I don't, you're not . And not, not, not five minutes later, I was downstairs in the kitchen trying to take those deep breaths, like, come on a Cory, like you're bigger than this.
[00:37:09] Right. And my 12 year old comes downstairs and he's screaming at his mother and say another threatened an 18 year old girl and then yelled at a 12 year old boy. Right. And, and I could, I could instantly say to myself, and I did like, dude, you're a piece shit. Like, you haven't changed a bit.
[00:37:30] Like that's the self talk that went through my head and it's, it goes back to who do I want to be. And that's, so that's that answer. And it's also like, how do those things change? They don't change. Overnight. Right. And they don't change instantly. They don't change consistently either. That's, that's kind of the hard point. That's what answers your earlier question is, is like, who do I want to be tomorrow?
[00:37:54] You know, like, and the, and the thing is, man, like we're always evolving and. always getting new information. and so I need to forgive myself for the things I've done so that I can learn the things that I need to learn. You know, it's like, it's almost like. The analogy of the cup, like it was a, is it a full half empty? But if, if it's always full, right?
[00:38:17] If my cup's always full, I can't put anything new in, you know, so I need to like, I need to let go of some of that shame. I need to let go of some of that anger. I need to let go of some of that. Like, yeah, I fucked up today.
[00:38:28] Esteemable Acts and being of service
[00:38:28] And so that I can put in some new information, some new self love, like, you know, one of the things I learned too early on was if you want good self esteem, you need to do esteemable acts.
[00:38:38] Like, it's just that simple, you know, does he? Yeah, it was a nun that told me that one day cause I was like, I don't know. I don't really feel good about myself. And C was like, yeah, that's understandably, you're a felon and you're in a halfway house and you have no money and you haven't done much good in your life.
[00:38:56] So, it's understandable that you don't feel good about yourself. and it's understandable that sometimes you don't feel good about yourself if you eat a box of pizza by yourself, you know, like, it goes back to that if you want it exactly like you, you need to do a esteemable acts. So it's like sometimes, one of the things that saves me in, in, in the worst of situations, the thing that saves me is service to others, doing something for other people.
[00:39:25] Yeah. That always tends to save me from despair, shame, anger. What's alleged?
[00:39:32] Erich Wenzel: What's the simplest thing you do to make yourself in service?
[00:39:36]Corey McCarthy: Simplest thing,
[00:39:37] thing would be, so I worked for a guy a long time ago and I'm just going to give an analogy cause it works better that way. . But I worked for him in a construction crew, and he would give me directions to do stuff. And then.
[00:39:51]Okay. Asked me to go on what I needed to get done, cause I was constantly getting his stuff. So in your own home and your own place, if there's something that's bothering you, like the dishes or whatever, just fucking doing them. Right. Like the laundry, like the, the, the thing that, I mean, like that's one.
[00:40:07] And, and you know, you don't say anything about it, you just do it. that's, that's. One of the easiest ways that I can be of service. Another really great one for anybody that's in a relationship. You know, I don't know if you heard the cat hoax, interview with Tim Ferriss, but she's, really Epic human being.
[00:40:23] She does this thing in the prisons called love bombs. And what we're used to doing for people is we tell them we love them and then we tell them, or we really appreciate them, or we really liked them and we'd tell them. We appreciate them because they do this for us. A lot of times when we tell like, mom, mom, I really love you cause you always made me peanut butter and jelly or whatever instead of what's unique about them.
[00:40:48] And so I try to take time to tell people what I like about them. That's independent of our relationship. What sets them apart, you know what I mean? I do that for my partner. I try to do that for my kids. and then I try to do it for strangers. And that's simple, it's a, it's a very simple way. That's really,
[00:41:10] Erich Wenzel: I've never heard of it that way, but it.
[00:41:12] Yeah, that's really good because we're so used to saying why people are important to us. So then you're inadvertently making it about you, even though you feels like you're not, is there giving them a compliment, which is interesting. Now, now I'm going to be aware of that when I do things, because that's a super interesting one for me.
[00:41:33] Corey McCarthy: Good
[00:41:33] Erich Wenzel: and like I hadn't thought of it that way.
[00:41:36] Sharing knowledge for everyone
[00:41:36] And again, I kind of want to backup too. Cause you said you're, you're, you're not a guru in any sensor. You're no, not a superstar in many of these things. But I think that's just exactly why it is important to ask people these questions because you don't need to be somebody to try to be better. Like you don't need to be a CEO of the world.
[00:41:56] You know, you don't need to be a Jeff Bezos or an Elon Musk to be worthy of sharing something that might help someone else. And even still, like if an Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos was telling you something, I don't know how many people would actually listen to that as much because it's easy to say, eh, he's that person, you know?
[00:42:12] Of course, it's easy for him to do that, right? So for me, I think it's, it's just as important to share these stories, these mundane things, right?
[00:42:23]Corey McCarthy: Yeah. No, it's, it's. It's the mundane things. It kind of goes back to like what you said again about like when you fall off, you know, if it's, if it's, if it's Bezos or Bill Gates or somebody that's telling you, or even like Peter a T or somebody that's telling you something, it's like, Oh yeah, because you are this person.
[00:42:48] Like you can do that, but not in this life. Interestingly enough, this crisis has made me realize that like, so world stage like, is alluring as I think it is for everybody to kind of be somewhat famous or especially now, you know, and like in today's day and age, is it really important?
[00:43:11] You know, I mean, if you can reach more people with good information, awesome. Right? I mean. That's why I said books are so important to me, but, and in podcasts and things of that nature, but like being, being of service and kind and you know, present in your home and in your life is way more important than like getting on a stage.
[00:43:33] And as a matter of fact, I think it's how you end up on the fucking stage is by like being present and important and kind. And, and. Courteous in your day to day life. Right? Like you don't get there by being a Dick, you know? Yeah. Maybe some do. Who knows?
[00:43:51] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. I mean, it isn't just a thing, right? Like there's all of these, it feels like to me, for the first time that I've noticed that a lot of these ideas about what community really means has finally we've all been shocked awake to some degree or been forced to reevaluate as a culture about whether you think what, what really matters in a society or what does a good culture or community look like? Because I don't think, as we can see right now, this problem, even though it is global, it has more impacts at the local level, then then the government or the state governments are going to be able to help so it's kind of like up to each of our own little communities to kind of pitch in as needed in this way. Right. And where I live, it's, I've never seen the community more alive than probably when I was little.
[00:44:52] You know, when I was outside riding bikes and as a little kid, my parents were watching us don't go down to the end of the block. Like, I haven't seen it like this since then. You know? And it seems, it's like we've turned, it's like we've turned back the dial on like this, the technology progression of like this, our own little bubbles and the communities alive.
[00:45:13] Like people smile at you. Or at least they've been smiling at me. Like they can always be your presence and it's weird, but it's also really hopeful, which is, I'm like, wow, this is so strange. It's so, it just, I dunno. I'm kind of excited. And it's also, you know, it sucks that it took this to, to make that happen though.
[00:45:30] The good and the bad of COVID-19
[00:45:30]Corey McCarthy: Yeah. It's, Jesus, it'll probably get twisted up somehow by somebody, and I don't mean it to be that way, but, I, I feel like. I feel like this is going to be terrible in a number of ways, for a lot of families, for a lot of doctors, for a lot of nurses, for, but I also feel like, and this is the kind of somewhat comical part, is like, I feel like COVID 19 has the ability to make America great again, as opposed to, you know, whoever, right?
[00:45:59] Like, Not that America is not great. I actually believe full heartedly that it's one of the best places in the world. But like you said, I was walking on the street the other day with the dog, and, and I try, I go out of my way to wave and say hello to people even when they don't. but we, you know, there was, it reminded me of my childhood, in some ways.
[00:46:18] And it's really strange because it's made things in some ways, hyper digital, right? As far as so many, I mean, like zoom stock has like, probably tripled, but, you know.
[00:46:28] Google meetup, and he was like my stepson. We felt out the rack in the garage, in the past two days, you know, out of like scrap wood. And we wouldn't have done that. We wouldn't have time to do that. Like I would have been busy. He would have been busy going to practices and all this other stuff. Yeah. And he actually sent today, he was like, I'm not bored at all.
[00:46:45] I've been riding my skateboard. I've been, we climbed the a, there's a school behind me. And we climbed up the school and got on the roof. yeah. Thankfully there are no cameras. So there's no proof of that. I could be lying, but yeah, I mean, we've, we've had, we've asked, so we in some ways had a blast.
[00:47:04] In the midst of the uncertainty and stuff. Yeah.
[00:47:07] Shared global experience
[00:47:07] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. I totally agree. Like it's like, I do agree that it sucks to say that this event is going to help. There's so many layers to this scenario that, that I go to is cause I can look at it from the healthcare perspective and then I look at it through, you know, the people that are actually affected by this thing.
[00:47:26] And then economically speaking like it, it's this, all of this interwoven impacts that for the first time in a long time, it's not just like an isolated thing, right? Like a lot of the major events that we've had, in the two thousands have all been separated to some degree, like nine 11 was its own thing, like that was in New York, but like the, you know, the country rallied around it.
[00:47:49] The war in Afghanistan, that was still like there. Right. And then if we're going global, it's like Brexit was Brexit or whatever, you know, it's like all of these things were kind of like isolated to either single geographical locations or it didn't really affect each of us. But this thing is like this thing that immediately took all of us by storm and it interrupts our daily lives.
[00:48:11] It gives us a chance to reflect. And I think reflection is one of the most powerful things that we can do as humans, that the way we've manufactured our lives, we don't give ourselves enough time. And I remembered that you have journals like a lot of the times that you've had. and so I know that you're a big fan of reflection.
[00:48:36] So do you still keep up with the journal and things like that?
[00:48:40] The power of reflection
[00:48:40] Corey McCarthy: yeah, not, not. I actually wrote in it today and I was down in Costa Rica in January enough so a quick story feeding your curiosity. In 2007, I was halfway through doing eight years in prison, and I had just kind of started to try to get sober and a number of other things. I had gotten into an altercation with the security staff at the facility, and I had gotten put into solitary confinement and I wrote in there that I needed to start seeing this happen before it happens. And so over the next 30 days that I was in solitary.
[00:49:22] I was complaining about my circumstances being in prison. So I was, there was like no humility in the fact that like, I belonged in prison cause I had, you know, committed a severe crime. and that the prison system was really bad and all these other things.
[00:49:36] And so there's all this like complaining. And I, and I noticed it and I wrote it down on it. And I was like, so one of the things I need to look at, and that's, that's one instance of, of journaling. And then I have a, another great story that's kind of, you know, it sounds, I don't take it out. You want it, right. So here, I think it was last year. It was last summer. Typically, in the middle of the summer is like our busiest time of the year.
[00:49:59] We usually have like 12 people call in and a couple of different jobs, and we do really high end work. And, and, and I, I really want the results to be, I come in under budget and all these things. So midsummer I'm usually, like all the way stressed out and, and I noticed it. because of self reflection and because of journaling.
[00:50:20] And I said, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to, I'm going to get up in the morning and I'm going to read a page from one of the journals from when I was incarcerated, right. and have some coffee and sit on the front steps and kind of reflect to get a little gratitude, right? Like you're stressed out that like your 12 employees might not be at full capacity.
[00:50:39] Like dude's like you're in a cage seven years ago, like I think you can relax. And I just flipped open a page and it just so happens that I flip open a page from 2007 which was the year that I got sober and it was like a six month projection kind of a thing. It was like, I just, all I want from this life is to be B at my own house, able to cut my own grass.
[00:51:07] Wash my own car and my own driveway.
[00:51:09] And sit on my own. And there I was. You know what, 12 years later, sitting on my own front steps, seeing the world pass me by, you know? And it just so happens that that was the page I opened to. If that's not a good enough reason to journal, you know, like I don't, I mean, and, and yet I don't journal every day.
[00:51:29] I have been journaling through this experience because it just seems so appropriate. I just think of it like a time capsule. I'm very interested in how I'm going to feel when I reread the journal entries from March, April of 2020 and you know, March, April of 2025. It's a really good tool.
[00:51:53] Erich Wenzel: It's I, those stories are really important. I, I, again, it's just given your circumstances, it puts an even more stark contrast for yourself, because I think it's really easy for people to say, this is who I've been, and then to not give themselves the ability to say they could get better. You know? And I think that's one of the things you've done really, really well to actually build a network and have the ability to, to say, I can try and improve.
[00:52:26] Getting started
[00:52:26] And in the easiest terms, how, how would you suggest someone work to either ask you help from someone or just somehow get themselves to take the first step to improve in whatever category it might be a, it doesn't really matter just in general terms.
[00:52:48] Corey McCarthy: Yeah. So there's, there are two questions there and both really good questions. This is like such an inappropriate podcast for you because you are a curious guy and you ask really good questions. so the, the easiest way to get started, I mean, it's gonna sound stupid, but is to take the first step. so, and I mean this with all sincerity.
[00:53:08] I learned yoga. This is, so I learned yoga. While I was in prison, and it was from probably what you would consider, like the idiot's guide to yoga. Right? But it was a seven week yoga. The first week, all the book taught you to do was how to breathe, and it asked you to breathe for five minutes or three minutes every morning and every night before bed.
[00:53:33] That was it. That was it. That's all you did for a week. You would breathe deeply for three minutes. I was like, all right, I could do this, you know, what the reason I wanted to do yoga was cause I was in solitary confinement and came across the New York post and there was a, an 85 year old woman doing like, I'm not a, and, and, and, but it kind of looks like, parallel and I couldn't do it and I was in great shape.
[00:54:00] So I was kind of pissed off about it. So the second week. You sit on your ass and you try to touch your toes for three minutes every morning. Right? So I'm like, that's, that's how, that's the simplest way to get started. If you want to get into shape, get up every morning and you know, call it stupid if you want to, but that's like, I'm, I'm still in phenomenal shape and, and it's from doing.
[00:54:26] The same thing, right? Like, and it started with one pull up, you know, get up every morning and do five pushups and then, you know, increase that and then slowly increase that when there's room to increase that. and the other thing, the other, cause you asked kind of two questions. So the answer to the first is just start on two, three, go.
[00:54:44] How do you know you should try?
[00:54:44] Right? Like pick one thing, one, two, three, go, let's do it. Like do that thing. and the other one is, the other question I think was kind of still around like. So value, like how do you know that you should try? And I think there's two factors. There's two factors that really come into play there. And there are typically what I've seen in my life are, lack of hope and fear of failure cause none of us want to look like a failure and, and, and we typically don't think we can do it right.
[00:55:14] Like I would imagine at some point you were like, I don't know if I could really, like if I, if I'm going to get this guy on this podcast, you know, like. And you send the email anyway, right? Like you do this thing anyway. yeah. I think the answer to both is kind of just do it anyway. Right. And, and, and, and, and it, one of the words that you used was, or one of the phrases was, I'm like losing it. It's, Oh, how do you learn how to like to learn something you don't understand? Or, and, and so as a man, this goes back to that kind of screwed up, skewed thinking we, we learn as men is that we're supposed to just know stuff, right? like guys are like, Oh, I don't know how to use this tool.
[00:55:55] And, and so they never picked the tool up. Yeah. And they, but they also never asked, right. We pretend like, I don't know how many times I've sat around a car with a group of guys that know cars and said, Oh yeah, the carburetor yep. And shook my head like I knew what the fuck they were talking about.
[00:56:11] Instead of just saying, can you explain a carburetor too, right? Yep. And maybe for a moment, a couple of them laughed. But then I might learn something about carburetors as opposed to still being ignorant at the end of this Congress. Right. and so that, like in the simplest terms, that's what you said in the simplest terms, like how do you gain knowledge to new things kind of, and it's by saying, I don't know.
[00:56:35] It's simply by saying, Hey, I don't know how to do this. Could you possibly tell me. Yeah. Or explain to me or show me. But that's like, I'm still in that process. Like there's times, and that goes back to what my friend said, like, never believe that, you know, the best way to do anything. You know?
[00:56:54] Keeping the ego in check
[00:56:54] Erich Wenzel: It's in psychology terms, it's cultivating bigger, a beginner's mind, you know, always being a beginner and open to learning and it's a hard thing to do because when you spend a lot of time doing things or. Doing one thing for that matter, you're, it's easy to say, yes, I'm an expert at X, or when people, it's even worse when people start recognizing you as a person who can do X because it goes to your head.
[00:57:18] How do you control your ego in some ways? you know, like when you are feeling more self-important than you should be.
[00:57:30] Corey McCarthy: Yeah. you know, it's, it's, it's usually
[00:57:36] so there's times when I think I'm right. So one of the ways I checked my ego, so quite honestly, one of the ways I check my ego is if I think three people are assholes in one week, I'm probably being the asshole. As opposed to like, if three people think that I'm being an, you know, an a hole or a jerk or whatever, but usually it's like, I need to, if I think everybody else is turning into jerks or ignorant or not that intelligent, then I'm probably being the one that's not being that intelligent or a jerk or whatever.
[00:58:08]for me, I think. It's more often that the struggle is that what I have to say isn't important. So for me, it's, it's usually the opposite. the ego, the ego comes into play for me as far as selfishness, I think more than like, I think I'm special. it's more like I need to take care of me, you know?
[00:58:31]That's where that gets in the way for me.
[00:58:33] Erich Wenzel: Yeah, sure. That makes sense. So we've already been doing this for an hour and I really want to be respectful of your time. I know it flies. I got a couple more questions and you've already mentioned a lot of books, but we'll wrap up for any other books that either you've gifted to people or, have made a big impact on you.
[00:58:53] Gifted books or recommended books
[00:58:53]Corey McCarthy: Yes. So one of the cool things I do, with a bunch of my friends are guys I've met in prison as I send them books and then I ask them. If they'll write like a one page book review on it. I mean honestly, it's a really cool thing to do for a number of reasons. One, I get reminded of the book or I learn something new about the book, but also like, if you have the time to do a book report, you remember that a little bit more than you would if you'd just read it.
[00:59:20]So one of them. Books that I just sent to a guy who actually has a children's book by a woman named Trina Paulus. But it's not necessarily a children's book. I'd challenge you to find it and read it. It's called hope for the flowers. And it may seem like. It sounds funny coming from an ex-con, right?
[00:59:41] Like a felon and like a contractor and like, but it's a beautiful, beautiful book. The little Prince is another one. Like I try a lot of my favorite books outside of like, psychology are more about staying a child and staying childlike in some ways, and having faith and things like that. But like. Yeah, I mean, I think I, you know, the secrets, another great book.
[01:00:04] There's, it's, there's a ton of, once you get started on that road, you know, there's a ton of good books. Yeah. But to read Hope for the Flowers, if you did, if you read nothing else in the next week or you hope for the FARs, it'd take you 45.
[01:00:17] Erich Wenzel: Cool. I will definitely be picking that one up for sure. and then the last question here is, you know, just kind of reflecting on all of this, right?
[01:00:26]Do you have a, you know, new belief or mindset or routine that you've picked up that has most impacted your life positively since getting out of prison? I think that normally, I would say like in the last two years, but I think for you, it makes it more sense to say, you know, you like post-prison because I think it's worth reflecting on that.
[01:00:48] Since getting out of prison what new belief or mindset has positively impacted your life?
[01:00:48] Corey McCarthy: Yeah. There is one for the, it's, it's, it's an interesting, I think you'll, you may know more about this than me, but I think it's something like every seven years, every cell in your body regenerates. I've heard that. Yeah. So interestingly enough, it's, it's almost been nine years, and in the past two years there's been a big, a new shift.
[01:01:11] I've been kind of dealing with the, You know, when I was in prison, I adapted a mentality of endure and overcome. And those two, those two things were like really pivotal, indoor, whatever it is and overcome, right? Just kind of constantly forging forward. those two things again, when I got out of prison, kind of did the same thing.
[01:01:32] Cause I remember being terrified and being like, what am I going to do now? I literally have $72, and I'm living in a halfway house and I have nothing. And nobody really trusts or believes in me. and it was like, do the same fucking things you did to get through prison. Read books, exercise, get up in the morning, talk to people, ask them to tell an old nun while you're gardening with her, Hey, I feel really shitty about myself.
[01:01:56] What should I do? You know? And learn from it. but in the past two years, it's been like really going back into the pain. And sifting through the pain and fully investing in relationships. and when I say that, like, that, you know, through every man they've given me some of the tools. I, I'm, I'm friends with the founders and the cofounders.
[01:02:16]but like. You know, in your home right now, right in my home right now, I can choose to be alone in my own home and not that that's a bad thing, but if I'm keeping my thoughts and my processes to myself, then why am I in this relationship, right? Like why am I friends with you or friends with somebody if I'm keeping things intentionally from you?
[01:02:42] But that was the way that I endured and overcame, right? Like I just kind of constantly forged forward by myself, for myself on, you know, and, and in the past two years, it's, it's been really like, I'm going to tell you, if I really like you, I'm going to tell you what I really like about you because, or I'm going to tell you that like all the time, I don't feel good about this, right?
[01:03:04] Like, I'm going to be as honest as possible so that the relationships I do have in my life. Are as meaningful as possible so that I'm no longer like you but alone. Right. Like, that's how you end up feeling lonely in a room full of people, I think. And because you're not fully transparent with these people, so the people that I do choose to, like, you know, make my core circle with like that's it's worked though. People don't always like what you have to say.
[01:03:33] Erich Wenzel: Yeah. I think that's really important. Just doing this podcast has really made me appreciate the ability to have depth of relationship, and just being able to connect with people more deeply. You know, the art of conversation as I kinda like to think of it as is kind of a lost art.
[01:03:51] Just given how much we communicate via, you know, letters on the screen in whatever form you choose, and it loses a lot of that messiness that is connecting with someone. You know, we've been using zoom meetings so we can see each other's facial expressions and things like that, which is a lot nicer. And it realistically, because I do enjoy that part of it, you know, having people in the area.
[01:04:14] It's one of the unique things about this. And you know, we could obviously go on for many hours. So there's always a room for around two and maybe around two in person you know, post COVID-19. Yeah.
[01:04:26] but the, I, you're. It's just a lot to think about. And I'm really appreciative of this whole time because I walk away with these conversations with so much to just chew over and reflect.
[01:04:36] And then once I go and edit this stuff, I will, you know. Have even more out of it because I listened to it twice. You know, I'm at once doing it, and then I edit it all and turn it into a blog post that goes up online.
[01:04:49] Erich Wenzel: So it's, there's so many layers to this thing for me, and it just, I'm really appreciative of your time and just share your experiences with me.
[01:04:57] And by extension whoever chooses to listen to this possibly the whole world realistically. So it's just thanks for it all across the board.
[01:05:06] Corey McCarthy: Yeah. man, thank you. It was really enjoyable for me. I mean obviously, under this situation or whatever, it's a little easier to find time, but your line of thought, You know, Peter is also an engineer and I just liked the way engineers' brains work. I'm like, get a bigger hammer, you know, but like you guys are like, hold on, let's think it through it. Let's think of it might be an easier way. and so it, you know, it's clarifying for me too, cause there's a lot of times I don't ask myself.
[01:05:35] The questions that you asked, you know? So it was really enjoyable for me. It was nice too. It was nice to sit down and talk with you, Erich. Thank you very much.
[01:05:43] Erich Wenzel: No problem. Thank you. And I guess the last thing is if there's anything, either some final thoughts, just given our conversation or given the circumstances, and then just how can people connect with you if they want to reach out and say hi or whatever.
[01:05:56] Corey McCarthy: Yeah. so you can find me at, I'm on Instagram as McCarthy. I think it's underscore. I E.
[01:06:02] Erich Wenzel: I'll have links in the show notes.
[01:06:03] Corey McCarthy: Yeah, at Twitter, Facebook, and, yeah, I mean, just reach out on any of those platforms. I'm actually gonna start putting out content, which I'm somewhat uncomfortable with, just cause, you know, like again, like I am not very self-important, but, I do think I have some, some concrete ways.
[01:06:21] I'm having a tough time. and you know, like writing down routines and things of that nature. So, as a matter of fact, I was thinking about a quote today, And it's kind of apropos to all of us. it's from Shawshank redemption, and it's when Andy Dufresne swam through a river as shit. So a red in the movie who was, I think it was Morgan Freeman.
[01:06:40] he said, yeah, he's the only guy who swam through a river, a ship to come out clean on the other side. And, and the idea, hopefully through the content that I'm going to put out there is to help people swim through this river. And come out a little cleaner on the other side.
[01:06:54] Erich Wenzel: That might be the title.
[01:06:55] Corey McCarthy: Hopefully filed. Yeah. I can't wait to hear it. I love these. Yeah, this is fun, man. There's a lot of fun.
[01:07:08] Erich Wenzel: Thank you. Until next time, everyone.